Leica Sonnar 1:1.5 f = 5,8 cm T Nr. 1407061

[PhotoCruiser]

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I pulled out Dad's two Leica 3 g (after the flash use document) and there are two additional lenses:

1 Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Elmar f = 9 cm 1:4 N° 606856

1 Sonnar 1:1.5  f = 5,8 cm T Nr. 1407061 identically to the one in this tread from 2008, reply #8 from Berthram,  but mine has a red T, not V
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/60944-leica-sonnar-58mm/?do=findComment&comment=729404

As far i understood the Elmar f=9 cm 1:4 is not a great lens, but the 5.8 cm may be one

Also as far i understood the screw in tread is a M39 so i would need a Adapter M39 to SL for my SL2 to see if i could use her.

Any suggestions?

Chris

Edited February 5 by PhotoCruiser

[spydrxx]

Don't discount the Elmar until you try it...I've had both the collapsible and (currently own) rigid versions.  use it on both film and digital and like its rendering.

[PhotoCruiser]

Thanks spydrxx!
I just ordered a m39 to L Adapter and should receive it Saturday and then i will test what will happen and i i can reuse them.
One has a collapsible Elmar f=5.0 cm 1:2.8, the other a collapsible Elmar  f=5 cm f:3.5 so i hope i can use them every now and then for special purposes.

Chris

 

[Ecar]

I have one of these 'mystery' 58/1.5 Sonnars. Mine is #1407011, no "T" or "V" and indeed doesn't appear to be coated. The post below summarises what I could find about them:

Proper RF focus across the range was difficult to achieve (at least on my copy) using the traditional "shimming" method, so the helicoid ramp had to be filed. Of course, this shouldn't be an issue on the SL, as long as the lens reaches infinity.

Edited February 6 by Ecar

[PhotoCruiser]

Thanks Ecar

Unfortunately at daylight the Sonnar show some haze and some dirt inside 😞 but no fungus what is good.
I will do some test first and then see what do to, maybe i find someone who can open the lens and clean it to bring her back to shine and keep it as memory about my Dad and my first days of photographing

I will see Saturday how the lens works on my SL2, if not satisfactory i wasted 40 bucks for the adapter or look around if i find another M39 lens in better shape.

 

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Edited February 6 by PhotoCruiser

[Ecar]

2 minutes ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Thanks Ecar
I will see Saturday how the lens works on my SL2, if not satisfactory i wated 40 bucks for the adapter.

Unfortunately at daylight the Sonnar show some haze and some dirt inside 😞 but i will test first and then see what do to.
 

You are welcome. It doesn't look like something a CLA can't fix.
Typical Sonnar rendering. You may like it or not.
TBH, I wasn't expecting much when I got my copy, but I found it to be on par in terms of rendering with my other CZJ Sonnars.

[PhotoCruiser]

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I like the rendering of your photo, looks nice.

Yesterday night while doing a search about this lens i stumbled over the information that it is a mystery lens and maybe a not original Leica lens, but i will investigate further in that.

Not really sure if my is a Russian copy, my dad is not the kind of guy who buy wired stuff and i guess he bought it in a known photo shop here in Zurich, i will ask him as he may remember where he bought it.
However, its a lens with a mysterious story and that makes it cool to have one.

Chris

 

[Ecar]

23 minutes ago, PhotoCruiser said:

I like the rendering of your photo, looks nice.

Yesterday night while doing a search about this lens i stumbled over the information that it is a mystery lens and maybe a not original Leica lens, but i will investigate further in that.

Two more then 😉:
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268173-the-view-through-older-glass/?do=findComment&comment=4371342

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268173-the-view-through-older-glass/?do=findComment&comment=4369820

Definitely not an original CZJ lens (and certainly not a Leica one...), but at least part of the glass might very well be.

 

 

[roydonian]

I've been working on a draft article of these strange lenses for the last quarter-century, but never seem to find the time needed to tie up the loose ends and finalise it.

In summary, these lenses were German war-surplus items and were not originally made for use on cameras. They are of the Sonnar configuration, and at some time in the immediate postwar years were fitted to L39-compatible mounts, but it is not known who did this.  Most were marked as 5.8cm focal length, but sometimes as 5cm or 6cm.

[UliWer]

You may find the story about early post-war lenses called „Sonnar“ with 39mm mounts here: 

The link to Marco Kröger‘s original text is two postings earlier.

Usually these lenses come with a serial number of 2,700,000 - 2,900,000. Here we have an item with a rather early serial number which would indicate a lens made in 1932 or 1933….

In his „Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II Carl Zeiss Jena“ 9th edition 2020 Thiele lists a batch of 2000 lenses from 1405,501 - 1,407.500 1:4.5/7.5cm for the Welta Perle (!). The next batch of 55 lenses 1,407,501 - 1,407,555 are 1:1.5/5cm Sonnars for the Contax. Thiele does not list any 1:1.5/5,8cm Sonnars. At this time the Sonnars for the Contax were black enamelled or at least in heavy brass - never in cheap alloy as seen here. The engraving of the „4“ on the mount‘s  scale show that the mount wasn‘t engraved by Zeiss (compare the „4“ on the front which has the typical Zeiss font.) So on all accounts this is a typical post-war fake. 

[PhotoCruiser]

Oh much more informations than i expected! Thanks so much to all of you.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb UliWer:

The engraving of the „4“ on the mount‘s  scale show that the mount wasn‘t engraved by Zeiss (compare the „4“ on the front which has the typical Zeiss font.)

Yes now i noticed the different 4 styles, so if i understand correctly, the black front ring is original Zeiss while the aluminum body is not.

What is a LTM mount? L=Leica i guess, but TM? I expect that the mount is M39 but i will see when the adapter arrives.

Chris

Edited February 6 by PhotoCruiser

[UliWer]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb PhotoCruiser:

Yes now i noticed the different 4 styles, so if i understand correctly, the black front ring is original Zeiss while the aluminum body is not.

Well, usually there is "Carl Zeiss Jena" written on the front ring. And as I said there was no Sonnar 1:1.5 f=5.8cm made by Zeiss.

vor 20 Minuten schrieb PhotoCruiser:

What is a LTM mount? L=Leica i guess, but TM? I expect that the mount is M39 but i will see when the adapter arrives.

LTM stands for "Leica thread mount" - which was 39mm.

[willeica]

16 hours ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Oh much more informations than i expected! Thanks so much to all of you.

Yes now i noticed the different 4 styles, so if i understand correctly, the black front ring is original Zeiss while the aluminum body is not.

What is a LTM mount? L=Leica i guess, but TM? I expect that the mount is M39 but i will see when the adapter arrives.

Chris

Leica Thread Mount = M39 . This mount was introduced in 1930 for the first interchangeable lens Leica, the I Model C, and it was standardised for full interchangeability the following year, with the camera and lens mounts being marked with a '0'. Prior to 1930, the Leica I Model A had a 33mm non interchangeable mount, apart from some rare modifications done in the UK which were 33mm and interchangeable. As for your lens, what you might expect from it on a digital camera, is, possibly, shown here in my article about the Soviet Jupiter 3 which was a copy of the 50 mm f1.5 Zeiss Sonnar https://www.macfilos.com/2018/05/14/2018-5-11-russian-lens-galaxy-from-sonnar-to-jupiter/

William 

[PhotoCruiser]

The photos in your article are awesome, i am really excited to get the adapter and start to use them, the Sonnar 5.8 cm and the Elmar 9 cm.
Chris

[PhotoCruiser]

This is the beaten up Elmar 9 cm.
It seems to work and lens looks good too, i think the dirt particles are inside the tubus and i can clean that by my self.

Could it be that this lens has only one optic element, the tubus is empty till the front element. 

There is also a tiny N°1 yellow filter, a flash with bulbs and the two bodies in a real nice state.

Chris

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[UliWer]

vor 47 Minuten schrieb PhotoCruiser:

Could it be that this lens has only one optic element, the tubus is empty till the front element.

It has four lens elements in three groups, the last two lenses being glued together - it is a typical Elmar (or Tessar) triplet design. 

You should be able to screw off the lens head.

[PhotoCruiser]

I received the M39 adaptor this morning and all works so far.
Its a Pholsy L39-L adaptor from Amazon and it came in a nice box with a bag and a tiny allen key despite the low cost of 29.06€ / 30$ 
The allen key is to loosen the L-Bayonet to rotate the M39 mount in order that the index marks are on top, nice solution.
They have also many adapters for almost any camera brand mount to Leica L mount.
I am positively surprised!

Chris

Now i have to take some pictures with the two old lenses... 

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Edited February 8 by PhotoCruiser

[Ecar]

If you find that the lens flares excessively, try a hood. The good news is that standard Series VI screw-in bits fit seamlessly, with no need to hunt for the right-sized adapter ring.

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[PhotoCruiser]

Thanks Ecar!
I took many photos yesterday and did not had the impression that the lens flare excessive.
I have the original sun hood for both lenses and will conduct some tests when i will need them but i love sunballs and flares as long they are not excessive.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[PhotoCruiser]

Just to close the argument about the origins of the gear as i asked dad and he told me below

Leica II f + Elmar 3.5 collapsible: got it new 1955 for his 16th birthday
Leica III f and Elmar 5 cm f/2.8 collapsible: he bought it used in photo store around 1960
Elmar 9 cm f4: he bought it used in photo store around 1956 and was told thats a pre WWII model
Sonnar 5cm f/1.5 he bought it used in photo store around 1960 and was told that it was built in a Zeiss factory in DDR (what seems to be wrong)

The whole setup travelled in 1963 with a first series VW bus dad am mum transformed in a camper van from Switzerland to Turkey for several months.
Later in 1969 dad studied 6 months at University in Toronto where we lived for this period, then we drove for about 1 year with dad's VW Passat Station wagon we brought from Switzerland to Vancouver then down the coast , Yellowstone Park, San Francisco and then back over Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde to NY where we embarked again with the car to the passenger ship to Holland.
Later many trips around the world but mum take over with her Super 8 camera and he stopped to talke photos.

Thats why i have special memories including that i took many many pictures with both cameras.

Chris