Leica Lens template proposal

[3D-Kraft.com]

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Talking about phases, I would seperate modern lenses designed with with digital sensors (with some filter-glass stack on top) in mind from earlier lenses designed for analog film. Whatever you want to start with (propably the "modern lens" phase), I would not make any further subdivisions like "Leica vs. 3rd-party". Not everyone believes that the camera or the subjects or the photographer's reputation will be damaged if non-Leica glass is used...

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[pippy]

16 hours ago, Altair said:

...I will wait until everyone has contributed before we reach a concensus on the proof of concept initial template...

...For the first phase 8-12 lenses should be sufficient...But for now let's decide on the proof of concept template...

I admire your resolve although I have a suspicion that you don't quite appreciate the enormity of the project you envisage embarking upon.

Therefore I would 'second' one suggestion which was written by Hansvons earlier in the thread - to wit;

On 1/5/2025 at 10:08 AM, hansvons said:

...If I were approaching a project like yours I’d keep it entirely anecdotally...

It is a straightforward task for anyone who has an interest in any one particular Leica lens to discover the technical specifications. Initial inclusion of a brief overview might, of course, be useful but probably best to keep the MTF-type data back so as to not dishearten those unfamiliar with their meaning.

ALL Leica lenses have pros and cons. ALL Leica lenses have supporters and denigrators. Might I suggest that it would be proper to allow all sides to offer an opinion so long as their thoughts are presented in a manner which respects the views held by others; whose views might be at odds with their own beliefs?

I would also make it a condition of 'posting' that the poster has had sufficient first-hand experience with the lens under discussion to allow them to have reached an informed decision rather than them merely repeating Internet Gossip and Hearsay. How that condition is to be enforced is another matter...

It goes without saying that images supporting all viewpoints would be essential.

I wish you the best of good fortune. If I feel that there is anything useful which I could contribute I would be happy to do so.

Philip.

Edited January 6 by pippy

[LocalHero1953]

This image keeps popping into my head..........

[NigelG]

I wouldn’t want to “take any wind out of your sails” but IMHO Leica lenses are already probably the most discussed/catalogued and analysed ad infinitum of any photographic products ever…I’m not sure what else can be said.

I would perhaps suggest selecting a single M lens of whatever “era” you decide from within the multitude of M lenses, and then trying to consolidate via your template the opinions of forum users within your criteria into any kind of coherent form.

I will be soon starting a more realistic project to begin an improvement of the herding of cats…😉

Edited January 6 by NigelG

[NigelG]

Cross posted 🫨

[pedaes]

12 minutes ago, pippy said:

the enormity of the project you envisage embarking upon.

 

I know it is a subscription site, but Sean Reid https://www.reidreviews.com/articleindextable.html has detailed reviews of all the current Leica and Voigtlander lenses with lots of images. For any lens like the 35mm 'Steel Rim' reissue there is a very full review / comparison with current Summilux on YouTube (Red Dot Forum), as there is with other lenses.. There is then Fred and Miranda Reviews, although some of their testing is on manufacturer supplied lenses, and Matt Osborn . So there is loads of stuff out there with a little scratching.

[pippy]

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59 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I know it is a subscription site, but Sean Reid......and Matt Osborn . So there is loads of stuff out there with a little scratching.

Yes; there is already plenty to be found on the www and that's putting it mildly!......😸......

I don't subscribe to Mr. Reid's site but have heard many good comments regarding his testing procedure. I find the clips posted by Matt Osbourne, although his day-to-day subject-matter is a million miles from my own, to be very interesting, unbiased and informative.

Having said all that my own first port-of-call when researching any prospective purchase is invariably the views of (the much-maligned) Ken Rockwell! Yes; he has a few (😸) quirks and personal preferences which make an appearance in every case but all it takes from my side is to read slightly between the lines. If I am still interested in any particular lens I will then head over to Herr Puts' excellent reviews.

It is rare that I will bother to look at images posted which have been taken using any particular lens. Apart from under particularly unusual circumstances they will teach me absolutely nothing. One exception was the 35mm Summilux thread started - I believe - by Steven. Certainly it was his photography within the dedicated thread which sparked an interest in acquiring one for myself. One of the best decisions I have ever made......

But I can still appreciate that the OP wants to make some sort of repository of collected information and opinion in one place; namely here.

As said earlier; I very much doubt that they have the slightest inkling of what such an endeavour will entail but if they have the enthusiasm to make a start then why not? I'm more than happy to see how it progresses.

Philip.

Edited January 6 by pippy

[jaapv]

20 hours ago, farnz said:

... will someone pass the popcorn please?

Pete.

Do you mind sharing, Pete? 

[Bernard M]

Gentlemen, please don’t forget Wolgang Simon’s site (https://sites.google.com/site/wosimsphotography/leica-camera-lens-reviews/links-testberichte-reviews).

[jaapv]

Maybe, before embarking on such an undertaking, you should have a look at how it should be done: 

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/lenses/all-lens-reviews/#Leica

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, Altair said:

I am testing this lens as a portrait lens with the Visoflex and also on the Z9 with an adapter. Much better.

For portraiture, truly unique results. No professional photographer would want to use this lens I assume, getting the eyes tack sharp is nearly impossible wide open and even when close, it is a soft lens. That said, for a hobbyist such as myself and my family we love it. My wife likes the flattering effect that she has likened to an iPhone filter, I understand she means the lack of skin detail and creamy skin texture. The glow is also on maximum here.

I apologize as I am not comfortable posting pictures of my family online, if i do some street portraits and the victim allows it will post here. I should mention this is the last German made version, which I was told is the desirable one( have not tested any other )

 

Final conclusion, is it worth the 4k price tag? Difficult to say. For my personal use, I am glad I got it as it represents a departure from all my other glass and the results are both fun and pleasing. For most, I assume and modern alternative such as the 75 APO would be a better option. It really comes down to if you want to diversify or consolidate.

 

I will say, the 75mm is very tempting and agreeable. I am back listing after the Noctilux 75 now.

 

 

You probably have a dud example - from about f 4 it is one of the sharpest lenses of its era. It is easy to focus precisely, on an M and rangefinder, so I assume on a Sony or EVF even simpler, as it has a sharply defined plane of focus and gentle OOF falloff.  Read the competent review on the site I linked to. I had the lens for years - your description is unrecognizable. Send it in for checking, CLA and calibration.

[LocalHero1953]

I agree there should be no problem focusing a 75mm lens on a M (and had no trouble with the Apo-Summicron 75 and 90 when I had them). The Summilux is a peculiar beast, however, and cannot always be relied on for all distances and all apertures because of its focus shift. I know I can focus my lens accurately at portrait distances wide open (which is all I want it for), but I wouldn’t rely on it wide open at greater distances (though I know it is focused at infinity at the hard stop, whatever the rangefinder says). Stopped well down at long distance the DoF should mask errors of focus shift.

Edited January 7 by LocalHero1953

[raizans]

This seems like the kind of thing you should do on Wikipedia, except it might be doomed because people wouldn’t be able to keep themselves from being extremely biased.

[DigitalHeMan]

I only scanned through the thread as my popcorn was getting cold, but I didn't see mention of any of Erwin Puts excellent Leica compendiums. Since his passing they have all been made available for free download at https://www.overgaard.dk/LP-Leica-books-by-Erwin-Puts-on-lenses-cameras-and-the-history-of-the-company.html. This might be what you're looking for, @Altair. They certainly helped me in deciding which lenses to purchase.

[pgk]

Surely part of the pleasure of owning various Leica M lenses is in the exploration of their facets for yourself. Reading up about them is interesting enough but I've never felt that there is an existing lack of information about most lenses. If anything the biggest problem is sifting through the available information and sifting out the inaccurate material supplied due to wishful thinking. I'm not sure that this will change regardless of how correlated that information is.

FWIW when I had a 75mm Summilux I found that it was possible to focus accurately wide open but only when lighting, contrast and subject matter allowed. Often this meant that where f/1.4 would have been useful due to low light, there was insufficient light and contrast even if subject matter allowed. My take was that it is a fabulous lens, maginally soft wide open (useful as a portrait lens) and capable of beautiful images stopped down where it has sufficient, marginal spherical aberration left to take the sever edge off detail. Alas it was little used, unlike my 75mm Summarit which gets a lot more use that the Summilux ever did.

[pippy]

2 hours ago, DigitalHeMan said:

I only scanned through the thread as my popcorn was getting cold, but I didn't see mention of any of Erwin Puts excellent Leica compendiums. Since his passing they have all been made available for free download at https://www.overgaard.dk/LP-Leica-books-by-Erwin-Puts-on-lenses-cameras-and-the-history-of-the-company.html. This might be what you're looking for, @Altair. They certainly helped me in deciding which lenses to purchase.

AFAIK, DigitalHeMan, Herr Puts has only been mentioned once in this thread but in the other - earlier - thread started by the OP on this same subject(*) not only was his name mentioned numerous times links to his works were posted, by LocalHero1953, in post #2 and in post #3 the OP wrote;

"I had not seen those excellent resources, thank you for sharing them. They are now enroute to my home."

So yes; the OP is aware of them and, when they arrive, I trust that the OP will start to appreciate the amount of work required to produce such definitive works.

Philip.

* The earlier thread in case you might have missed it : https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418337-leica-lens-project-proposal/

 

[pedaes]

20 minutes ago, pippy said:

Herr Puts

Erwin Puts Blog is still available which includes testing of non-Leica (Zeiss/Otus) lenses http://photo.imx.nl//blog/

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Altair:

For portraiture, truly unique results. No professional photographer would want to use this lens I assume, getting the eyes tack sharp is nearly impossible wide open and even when close, it is a soft lens.

Before sending in for CLA or selling it, I would suggest that you provide links to a few test shots at full resolution so that others, who already have first-hand experience with the 75mm Summilux can rate and comment on it. These test shots should be taken from a high-contrast, finely structured object at good lighting preferably from a tripod with delayed self-timer and you should focus them in life view or with the visoflex at full magnification in order to minimize human error.

If you repeat the shot also with rangefinder focusing and at different apertures, you (and we) can see, if the sample is mis-calibrated or has focus shift. From what I saw so far, the lens sharpness is only good in the center. So perhaps you might take also some shots with different compositions with the subject placed outside the center (also with live-view at full magnification).

I would recommend to put this into discussion in another thread as this one here was dedicated to the lens overview template and popcorn consumption.

Edited January 7 by 3D-Kraft.com

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

27 minutes ago, pippy said:

AFAIK, DigitalHeMan, Herr Puts has only been mentioned once in this thread but in the other - earlier - thread started by the OP on this same subject(*) not only was his name mentioned numerous times links to his works were posted, by LocalHero1953, in post #2 and in post #3 the OP wrote;

"I had not seen those excellent resources, thank you for sharing them. They are now enroute to my home."

So yes; the OP is aware of them and, when they arrive, I trust that the OP will start to appreciate the amount of work required to produce such definitive works.

Philip.

* The earlier thread in case you might have missed it : https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418337-leica-lens-project-proposal/

 

I fear that Erwin was not a Herr but a Mijnheer. He would have been quite offended. 

[pippy]

Just now, jaapv said:

I fear that Erwin was not a Herr but a Mijnheer. He would have been quite offended. 

In which case, were he still alive, I would offer him my sincere apologies for getting this detail incorrect!

🙂

Philip.