m lenses on leica sl2-s (softness problem)

[enoxiste]

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Happy New Year to Everyone!

I have a question about using m lenses on leica sl2-s or sl system. I have leica m7 and leica m10 monochrom. My friend offered me his sl2-s reporter for a good price. I dont have any digital colorful camera, so i thought it would be great to use sl2-s especially with my m lenses. For giving a try, i took camera from my friend and started to shoot with my summicron 28mm asph. v1 and summilux 50mm asph. 

With summicron 28mm, corners of images are very softy. I use it with my m7 and m10m, and that kind of a softness i have never seen. Center of the images are sharp and clean, but corners not. Maybe i can be ok with them as a street photography but i cant use these images as a landscape photos. By the way i am using original m to l adapter and my two lenses are 6-bit.

With summilux 50mm, its not that bad, corners are softer than at my m cameras but not a huge difference. I can use these shots from sl2-s as a portrait for example. As a landscape, i m not sure. 

I would like to ask your thoughts about this situation. Maybe i have bad m to l adapter, or i have to use some adjustment on sl2-s or maybe m lenses are not quite good with sl system as with m cameras. I have checked some topics, most of the people are happy with their m lenses with sl system combo. I think some people had also issues with wide angle lenses too.

I will be grateful if i hear your experiences about using m lenses on sl2-s. 

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[aficionados]

Depending on which aperture you were shooting with, any M lenses wider than 50mm will show some degree of softness on the corners when adapted to SL cameras.

But this softness should not be too bad. How bad is too bad is a subjective opinion though.

I mounted my summicron-M 28 ASPH v2 on SL2-S with LLL adapter, shooting at f/2.8 or smaller aperture I don't see any significant softness on the corners.

you may want to post some pictures to demonstrate though. Also make sure you have selected correct lens profile. I know summicron-M 28mm is 6-bit coded and you are using leica m-l adapter. But just double check. I am using LLL adapter without the 6-bit code sensor, so I always manually set the lens profile.

Edited January 1 by aficionados

[enoxiste]

34 minutes ago, aficionados said:

Depending on which aperture you were shooting with, any M lenses wider than 50mm will show some degree of softness on the corners when adapted to SL cameras.

But this softness should not be too bad. How bad is too bad is a subjective opinion though.

I mounted my summicron-M 28 ASPH v2 on SL2-S with LLL adapter, shooting at f/2.8 or smaller aperture I don't see any significant softness on the corners.

you may want to post some pictures to demonstrate though. Also make sure you have selected correct lens profile. I know summicron-M 28mm is 6-bit coded and you are using leica m-l adapter. But just double check. I am using LLL adapter without the 6-bit code sensor, so I always manually set the lens profile.

As you said, 28mm showed softness especially when i shoot at f2-2.8. Around at f5,6 softness is less but there is anyway. I have checked lens profile as well, and everything was fine. Examples;

f2;

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at f5.6;

[jaapv]

Smearing in the corners is not linked to the lens profile. Actually the SL series is the best option of all EVF cameras to use with M lenses as it is designed for the purpose. But some wideangle lenses will still perform best on an M camera, actually best on film cameras. For landscape you will have to stop down to about f8 or use more modern telecentric lenses designed to be used on digital sensors. Anyway, your Summicron is known for softer corners and field curvature according to Erwin Puts despite being one of the best 28s ever designed, so your findings are not really surprising. 

[enoxiste]

26 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Smearing in the corners is not linked to the lens profile. Actually the SL series is the best option of all EVF cameras to use with M lenses as it is designed for the purpose. But some wideangle lenses will still perform best on an M camera, actually best on film cameras. For landscape you will have to stop down to about f8 or use more modern telecentric lenses designed to be used on digital sensors. Anyway, your Summicron is known for softer corners and field curvature according to Erwin Puts despite being one of the best 28s ever designed, so your findings are not really surprising. 

I see, thank you very much for your information 🙏

[costa43]

General consensus is that corner performance on the SL range is not as good as an M but better than anything else. I’ve tried around 10 or so M lenses on my SL2s and have not noticed anything really with any of them, then again, I’ve not been looking for it I guess. I think if a lens is known to soften in the corners it could be a little more noticeable on the SL than the M. If that is the first version of the 28mm Summicron, it’s corners are relatively soft wide open in general. The v2 improves on this a fair bit. I’d suggest stopping down and trying not to overthink it. I’ve never seen a slightly softer than perfect corner spoil a good image personally.

A couple of landscape examples below with an even wider lens. The 24mm Elmar on an sl2s. 

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[Jeff S]

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I keep my M lenses (including both referenced by OP) on my M bodies, and SL lenses (mostly 24-90) on my SL2. Guess I’m a believer in native lenses, optimized for system.

 

[enoxiste]

13 minutes ago, costa43 said:

General consensus is that corner performance on the SL range is not as good as an M but better than anything else. I’ve tried around 10 or so M lenses on my SL2s and have not noticed anything really with any of them, then again, I’ve not been looking for it I guess. I think if a lens is known to soften in the corners it could be a little more noticeable on the SL than the M. If that is the first version of the 28mm Summicron, it’s corners are relatively soft wide open in general. The v2 improves on this a fair bit. I’d suggest stopping down and trying not to overthink it. I’ve never seen a slightly softer than perfect corner spoil a good image personally.

A couple of landscape examples below with an even wider lens. The 24mm Elmar on an sl2s. 

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As @jaapv said, Summicron 28mm is working perfect on my m7, so i thought i would see same performance on sl2-s. Thats why my expectation was high and i overthought about image quality. Great photos by the way 👏

[enoxiste]

2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I keep my M lenses (including both referenced by OP) on my M bodies, and SL lenses (mostly 24-90) on my SL2. Guess I’m a believer in native lenses, optimized for system.

 

As much as i experienced and understood, you get best results with native lenses 👍

[Jeff S]

4 minutes ago, enoxiste said:

As much as i experienced and understood, you get best results with native lenses 👍

Plus, in this case, SL body and lens weather sealing.  And the zoom has OIS. Very different system approaches and shooting experiences/circumstances for me.

[costa43]

If you want native and a smallish setup then Sigma make some really good and relatively small lenses in their contemporary range for the SL. They are well priced and have weather sealing at the mount for some protection against the elements, although you would have to go up to their ART/Sport series for more comprehensive weather proofing. Those lenses tend to be larger though. If you are ok with a bigger lens and have the budget then the APO SL lenses are the dogs bollocks. 

Edited January 1 by costa43

[enoxiste]

18 minutes ago, costa43 said:

If you want native and a smallish setup then Sigma make some really good and relatively small lenses in their contemporary range for the SL. They are well priced and have weather sealing at the mount for some protection against the elements, although you would have to go up to their ART/Sport series for more comprehensive weather proofing. Those lenses tend to be larger though. If you are ok with a bigger lens and have the budget then the APO SL lenses are the dogs bollocks. 

Thank you very much for suggestion. I will definitely look reviews for sigma and panasonic lenses and rend some of them to try their performance. 

 

[LeicaR10]

Enoxiste,   First, welcome to the forum.  As you have read, there are many well intentioned photographers who will offer their sage advice, to include myself.  Second, Jaapv in his post #4 offers a very good explanation.  If you want to really see what the SL2-S can do, rent or borrow any of the Leica SL Apo lenses.  These lenses are in a league unto their own.  You can also check out this site and it will give you a good idea what these lenses can help create.  r/ Mark

PS  The Onfotolife.com site has other manufacturers lenses that you can check out too;  Sigma, Panasonic etc..

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=4184&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lenses?lens=Leica

 

[enoxiste]

10 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Enoxiste,   First, welcome to the forum.  As you have read, there are many well intentioned photographers who will offer their sage advice, to include myself.  Second, Jaapv in his post #4 offers a very good explanation.  If you want to really see what the SL2-S can do, rent or borrow any of the Leica SL Apo lenses.  These lenses are in a league unto their own.  You can also check out this site and it will give you a good idea what these lenses can help create.  r/ Mark

PS  The Onfotolife.com site has other manufacturers lenses that you can check out too;  Sigma, Panasonic etc..

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=4184&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lenses?lens=Leica

 

Thank you very much for welcoming me  and thanks for all information, i will check them for sure 👍

Edited January 1 by enoxiste

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

I keep my M lenses (including both referenced by OP) on my M bodies, and SL lenses (mostly 24-90) on my SL2. Guess I’m a believer in native lenses, optimized for system.

 

It really depends on the lens and the purpose. I find the Summilux 24 M a fantastic lens on the SL. And even more so on the SL2S.  But used within its envelope, low-light shallow DOF and atmospheric shots. Beautiful separation. For tack-sharp wideangle work I like the Super Elmar 18, stopped down. No corner issues there. 

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

It really depends on the lens and the purpose. 

For my lenses, and my purposes, of course. And for various added reasons beyond IQ, as noted.

[Photoworks]

I use the Summilux-M 28, and the Ultron II 28 on my SL2

I see the same performance as my M camera.

 

Looking at your f2 image it semans that the off center focus is different from side to side, looks like the lens+adapter need more inspection.

I would start with a different adapter and a digital M lens, if the result show the same, the lens may need some calibration.

 

[aficionados]

9 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I use the Summilux-M 28, and the Ultron II 28 on my SL2

I see the same performance as my M camera.

 

Looking at your f2 image it semans that the off center focus is different from side to side, looks like the lens+adapter need more inspection.

I would start with a different adapter and a digital M lens, if the result show the same, the lens may need some calibration.

 

If it's the lens problem that shows the  off center focus differently from side to side, shouldn't it be the same case on his M camera too?

If not, then it has to be adapter.

But to be honest, I don't see the different focus softness from different side though. Maybe it's just my eyes being too tolerant.

 

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[Stuart Richardson]

On 1/1/2025 at 11:16 AM, enoxiste said:

Happy New Year to Everyone!

I have a question about using m lenses on leica sl2-s or sl system. I have leica m7 and leica m10 monochrom. My friend offered me his sl2-s reporter for a good price. I dont have any digital colorful camera, so i thought it would be great to use sl2-s especially with my m lenses. For giving a try, i took camera from my friend and started to shoot with my summicron 28mm asph. v1 and summilux 50mm asph. 

With summicron 28mm, corners of images are very softy. I use it with my m7 and m10m, and that kind of a softness i have never seen. Center of the images are sharp and clean, but corners not. Maybe i can be ok with them as a street photography but i cant use these images as a landscape photos. By the way i am using original m to l adapter and my two lenses are 6-bit.

With summilux 50mm, its not that bad, corners are softer than at my m cameras but not a huge difference. I can use these shots from sl2-s as a portrait for example. As a landscape, i m not sure. 

I would like to ask your thoughts about this situation. Maybe i have bad m to l adapter, or i have to use some adjustment on sl2-s or maybe m lenses are not quite good with sl system as with m cameras. I have checked some topics, most of the people are happy with their m lenses with sl system combo. I think some people had also issues with wide angle lenses too.

I will be grateful if i hear your experiences about using m lenses on sl2-s. 

Happy New Year!

As you have noticed, certain lenses do not do as well as on the SL cameras as they do on the film and digital M cameras. Often the difference is not large enough for many photographers to notice, but as you have shown in your picture, it can be a real issue with certain lenses. At least according to my experience, some of the M wide angle lenses made for film do demonstrate the kind of softness you have shown. My 25mm Biogon ZM looks like that on the SL2 as well, while be pretty sharp on the M10M and very sharp on the M7. I think that if you stop down the lenses you should be ok, but if you are looking for better performance, any of the native L mount wide angles is likely to give you better edge to edge sharpness. The L mount lenses, particularly the APO Summicrons, are extremely good. You should still be able to get great results from M lenses, but as you have seen, they don't really do AS well as they do on the M cameras. Some are better than others, but it really depends on the lens design and vintage.

[enoxiste]

On 1/3/2025 at 10:44 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

Happy New Year!

As you have noticed, certain lenses do not do as well as on the SL cameras as they do on the film and digital M cameras. Often the difference is not large enough for many photographers to notice, but as you have shown in your picture, it can be a real issue with certain lenses. At least according to my experience, some of the M wide angle lenses made for film do demonstrate the kind of softness you have shown. My 25mm Biogon ZM looks like that on the SL2 as well, while be pretty sharp on the M10M and very sharp on the M7. I think that if you stop down the lenses you should be ok, but if you are looking for better performance, any of the native L mount wide angles is likely to give you better edge to edge sharpness. The L mount lenses, particularly the APO Summicrons, are extremely good. You should still be able to get great results from M lenses, but as you have seen, they don't really do AS well as they do on the M cameras. Some are better than others, but it really depends on the lens design and vintage.

Thank you for information. I didnt have digital color camera, so i decided to take my friend's sl2-s reporter  I think i will try it with sigma and panasonic lenses at first, but i will try one of these magical apo's as well in the near future  

My summicron is great with my m7, so i will keep using it with that camera.