M11/M11-P/M11-D/M11-M: Firmware update v.2.2.0 brings background transfer with Leica FOTOS

[jeri]

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6 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Are you using the current model and OS version? Mine simply worked. 

Unfortunately, without success. The phone detects a Bluetooth device paired with the camera, but in order to connect my Samsung phone (A25), it requires installing an application to use this specific device. What application is this, and how can an Android user implement it? These are all answers that Leica can answer. 😇

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[maxpower]

10 hours ago, marchyman said:

I just looked at the quick start pdf I have.  Can't see where it is mentioned.  Also not found when searching for 'reset', 'thumb', or 'function'.  I then searched "LEICA M11 Instruction manual" M11/EN/2022/1/1.0/1 -- the factory reset menu item is explained on page 140.  Nothing about  "hold these buttons for 30 seconds".  I confirmed that by searching for "30".

If described in the docs it is a later addition, not something that was there from "day 1".

I feel like it's not relevant to this topic to keep discussing this, but since you quoted me directly I'll respond, only once. I'm not sure you are looking in the right manual given the 2022 and old firmware in your filename, I was talking specifically about the M11-D manual (September 2024) as all other M11 cameras have a screen and menu you can access to reset the camera. I might not have mentioned M11-D in my message, but that was already mentioned in the quote I was replying to setting the context.

[Lev55]

I am very happy about the new feature. Thank you Leica. My only suggestion would be if the picture size which is now 3 megapixel would be 6 megapixel.

[ElsieKL]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb DadDadDaddyo:

Hm. Is what I observed not background transfer? I did a test shot and the shot appeared, a moment later, amongst the previous shots in FOTOS. Very fast, in the blink of an eye, and without any command.

It was preview-sized, and on selecting it in FOTOS, it offered the option to download it full-sized. I don't recall it working like this before. Before I had to bring up the photos on the camera in FOTOS, then select those that I wished to transfer. It was a manual set of steps before, but again, I only accessed it when I wished to initiate a transfer. 

Please note, I've never had FOTOS running to observe it's behavior whilst shooting, only when I wanted to initiate a transfer. Has it always immediately brought over and added next shots in real time like that?

If so, if I've confused its behavior for something else, my apologies for my confusion, and for any confusion my own confusion may have caused!

Thanks -

D.D.Daddyo

Nope, what you observed is Tethered Preview which has been in the app since at least version 4.0, but limited to M11s. As someone else wrote, it will only show you new photos while connected (and offer you to download or favourite) but won’t automatically download anything.

It has been improved to also support Q3 and SL3 with 5.0 but otherwise, there’s nothing new here.

As another poster wrote further up, it seems like “Background Transfer” has indeed only been added to the iOS app. Nowhere on Google Play or in the app does it mention that it’s supported whereas on iOS, it does.

Edited December 15, 2024 by ElsieKL

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, Lev55 said:

I am very happy about the new feature. Thank you Leica. My only suggestion would be if the picture size which is now 3 megapixel would be 6 megapixel.

Not possible. the preview image you get when you review on your camera is the same image that gets transferred.
the communication is done by Bluetooth low energy, the battery consumption is minimal and the filesize has to be small.

Larger sizes are only available through WIFI, and that radio uses much more power, reducing your camera's battery life.

[Wandering Photographer]

I downloaded and installed the new FOTOS update from 5.0.1 to 5.0.2 on my iPad Pro with 2 TB of storage and I still cannot display the M11 images that I could previously display with no problem. When I try to display one of the problem images it displays briefly and then goes black. Other M11 images display fine. These are saved as DNG images.

[ElsieKL]

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb Wandering Photographer:

I downloaded and installed the new FOTOS update from 5.0.1 to 5.0.2 on my iPad Pro with 2 TB of storage and I still cannot display the M11 images that I could previously display with no problem. When I try to display one of the problem images it displays briefly and then goes black. Other M11 images display fine. These are saved as DNG images.

Maybe try shooting them a message via the app? Last time I did that, they were able to find an issue through my error logs.

[Wandering Photographer]

54 minutes ago, ElsieKL said:

Maybe try shooting them a message via the app? Last time I did that, they were able to find an issue through my error logs.

Thank you for suggesting that. I have just emailed them through the app with my updated “review” of the problem. We will see what happens.

Here is my updated message to them. Anyone else note this bug?

 

I have both an M10-R and M11. M11 images that used to display just fine, no longer display. I click on the thumbnail and it briefly displays—then goes black. At first it only appeared to happen with horizontally framed photos, but after swiping through a mixture of M10-R and M11 photos stored on my iPad Pro with 2 TB of storage, the behavior switched and verticals started turning black while horizontals started staying on. The M10-R images all displayed correctly. Even though an M11 image would switch to all black after briefly displaying, I could still bring it up in Light Room. The problem is image specific.

Clearly a bug in the M11 display code. Fix it please. The update from 5.0.1 to 5.0.2 did not fix the problem. The problem also shows up with my iPhone 12 Pro Max — all using the latest iOS.

[Derbyshire Man]

1 hour ago, Wandering Photographer said:

I downloaded and installed the new FOTOS update from 5.0.1 to 5.0.2 on my iPad Pro with 2 TB of storage and I still cannot display the M11 images that I could previously display with no problem. When I try to display one of the problem images it displays briefly and then goes black. Other M11 images display fine. These are saved as DNG images.

I missed whether you did a full reset of your camera as well. 

[Wandering Photographer]

1 minute ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I missed whether you did a full reset of your camera as well. 

I haven’t installed the new 2.2.0 firmware yet. I am simply trying to view photos previously downloaded to my iPad Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max using previous versions of FOTOS and M11 firmware. I am expecting that previously downloaded photos to still be viewable on FOTOS. My M10-R photos are.

[Derbyshire Man]

I don’t know whether something has subtly changed, whether there’s a camera code or something fotos is looking for but during the beta stage each build of fotos needed the matching firmware. 

[J S H]

Agreed. I don't think the updated version of Fotos will work properly without the 2.2.0 firmware for the M11. There was quite a lot of functionality added and the code would probably be very complex to make it work perfectly with all previous firmware versions.  

[Wandering Photographer]

1 minute ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I don’t know whether something has subtly changed, whether there’s a camera code or something fotos is looking for but during the beta stage each build of fotos needed the matching firmware. 

There is no way to update the previously downloaded images on FOTOS. These were produced with previous versions of the firmware and downloaded with previous versions of FOTOS. The memory cards have been reformatted. I do have the original images downloaded on my work station and backed up on a NAS. So they are not lost. 
 

It is simply a software bug in FOTOS that will hopefully be fixed soon.

[jgeenen]

I have observed that on 5.0.1 on my iPad Pro all images (including those from Q2) immediately resize two times within a fraction of a second. I don‘t get any darks, but this behavior is new. I am assuming that this modified display algorithm is causing the issue for some. I doubt any dependency on camera firmware - but who knows, the devil is a squirrel (German saying)…

[Wandering Photographer]

5 minutes ago, J S H said:

Agreed. I don't think the updated version of Fotos will work properly without the 2.2.0 firmware for the M11. There was quite a lot of functionality added and the code would probably be very complex to make it work perfectly with all previous firmware versions.  

Well designed software isolates functions such as display and data transport from each other so changes on one module do not impact another. I would hope that Leica has properly trained software engineers who understand this.

[Wandering Photographer]

4 minutes ago, jgeenen said:

I have observed that on 5.0.1 on my iPad Pro all images (including those from Q2) immediately resize two times within a fraction of a second. I don‘t get any darks, but this behavior is new. I am assuming that this modified display algorithm is causing the issue for some. I doubt any dependency on camera firmware - but who knows, the devil is a squirrel (German saying)…

I agree. The problem is in the routine that displays M11 images. So far, all of my M10-R images display with no problem. Some of the M11 images display just fine. Others show for an instant then turn black. But those images that turn black, come up just fine when I load them into LR from FOTOS.

[J S H]

6 minutes ago, Wandering Photographer said:

Well designed software isolates functions such as display and data transport from each other so changes on one module do not impact another. I would hope that Leica has properly trained software engineers who understand this.

Hoping for something does not make it so. I think the years-long M11 firmware debacle should give you an answer there. 

We take what we can get. Overall, this new version of Fotos and corresponding firmware is a nice improvement. In your particular case, based on my observations during the beta testing phase, I can tell you that things are likely not going to work right until you update the M11 firmware. 

[Wandering Photographer]

8 minutes ago, J S H said:

Hoping for something does not make it so. I think the years-long M11 firmware debacle should give you an answer there. 

We take what we can get. Overall, this new version of Fotos and corresponding firmware is a nice improvement. In your particular case, based on my observations during the beta testing phase, I can tell you that things are likely not going to work right until you update the M11 firmware. 

How would updating the M11 firmware from the version I have now to 2.2.0 change FOTOS and the photos I have previously downloaded with older versions of the firmware and FOTOS?

 

In my working life I was involved in developing software for a variety of Federal agencies. These principles of software engineering were already well established in the 1990’s. In fact the person who originally developed the Pascal programming language also developed a language named Modula 2. It was a huge improvement over Fortran and encouraged good programming practice. On the science projects I worked on, it generally took me 2 to 3 times longer than I estimated to complete tasks in Fortran. In Modula 2 it took me about half, 1/2, the time I estimated to complete a task. Unfortunately we were required to move on to C and C++ which are not nearly as easy to work with especially since you had to keep track of your own memory management. 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Wandering Photographer

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[J S H]

1 minute ago, Wandering Photographer said:

How would updating the M11 firmware from the version I have now to 2.2.0 change FOTOS and the photos I have previously downloaded with older versions of the firmware and FOTOS?

It won't. Those old photos will likely not be accessible any longer.  My guess is that the code updates to Fotos were so wide ranging that it may never display those old images properly. It was never meant to be an archival solution, no phone app ever is. I would recommend uninstalling the app, forgetting the devices in bluetooth settings, deleting the pairing on the cameras and starting from scratch, then updating the camera firmware. We did this 5-6 times during the beta testing phase...it's a two minute procedure. 

[erudolph]

15 hours ago, elmars said:

What did You turn of exactly?

I turned off the Background Transfer option.  That said, I realized that Background Transfer of Favorites is a very nifty option, so I changed Leica Fotos to do that.

Edited December 15, 2024 by erudolph