Why such a drop in SL2 and SL2s Prices?

[LocalHero1953]

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I'm curious why you bought the SL2-S, @jaapv, when you've been such a strong advocate for the S5ii.

[jaapv]

Horses for courses. The S5ii for superior features and AF specifically wildlife and long lenses,  the SL2S for daily use and sheer pleasure, better EVF and low light (GAS 🤣)  as a replacement for my SL 601 -which I’ll keep as a beat-up third string -the beach etc. I’ll pair the SL2S with a Summicron 50 SL. 

[LocalHero1953]

All cameras are flawed masterpieces (especially Leicas). We buy the next one, which promises to avoid the flaws, then we slowly discover its new flaws.

[JohnSantaF4]

4 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Actually this low price makes me saving money as an upgrade to the SL3 will cost too much. GAS always lurks around the corner, but now it doesn’t make any sense to trade in…

That is how I am looking at it too. I don't blame anyone but it makes going to an SL3 from my loved SL2-S a real financial stretch. 

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I looove my images with the the corroded spotty look of M9 and green shadows of M240... said no one ever.

Did you get green shadows with the M240? That's unfortunate, but it's not baked into the DNGs. You should revisit those with a different/updated raw converter. I worked with someone who shot several tens of thousands of images with 240s, and the issue never came up.

The M9 sensor issue was unfortunate, but it's behind us now. No doubt there are still some "mint" M9s out there with corroded sensors; user camera have been updated. What's left is one of the most unique digital cameras ever, with a look that can't be replicated in any other way. That camera is a perfect example of something that became legendary after the fact, once it was no longer taken for granted.

Back when the M9 was the current model, a lot of the discourse centred around the low EI (compared to a Canon 5D), and the shadow issues that are a consequence of that. As soon as it was replaced, the discourse was more like "learn to expose and you'll get incredible files." Why else would people spend thousands to fix the sensor on a 15-year-old camera?

 

[LocalHero1953]

I took 1,000,000 images on the M240 and never saw green shadows.

I win.

🙄

[jaapv]

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3 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I shot 100.000 images on M240 and all the shadows had a green hue when you opened them up (only then). A well documented issue that affected all M240 cameras without exception.

Maybe a slight problem with your editing software? Like a crooked profile? Never saw it on mine.

[Jean-Michel]

I only have 40576 files from my M-P(240). Never had any issues with any green or other hues in shadows or anywhere else.

[Crem]

On 11/3/2024 at 2:34 PM, maidenfan84 said:

It wasn't that long ago that I was looking at the Sl2 and the Sl2s camera bodies, they were still pretty high up there in pricing. I decided to take a look today and they both pretty much range in the $2500-$2800 range from what I could find. Some even included the M to L adapter in the price. Is there a reason for such a sharp drop in the pricing? Are there issues that are now arising after the time they've been released? I briefly had a chance to try out the Sl2s at the Leica store and I found it to be an incredible camera with one of the most beautiful EVF's I've ever seen. Large, bright, and realistic looking. Surprised to see them so low in price now, although it makes me happy a potential buyer. 

I assume it's a lot of reasons... mostly the expectation that the SL3-S is coming out soon-ish combined with all the things the SL2 and SL2-S are bad at compared to the competition (size, weight, auto focus, battery life). 

That said I think this is a great buying opportunity for Leica M shooters wanting to try out a different experience. I picked up a mint SL2-S from a friend that went back to Canon (mostly for AF, size, and weight). The SL2-S has quickly become my favorite digital camera for fast F1.4 M lenses. Overall my exposures are better and I nail F1.4 focus more often with static subjects. I'm sure part of this is due to my eye sight issues, but it's shocking how good this EVF is.

I also suspect the Light Lens Lab M to L adapter is causing the price of the official adapter to drop. At least with firmware version 6.0 I much rather use the LLL adapter because I get close focus and the focus point stick's zoom feature actually works. I wouldn't pay more for the official adapter than the price of a new LLL adapter.

Given time I expect the SL2-S prices to start rising again. I really suspect this camera will end up with a bit of a cult following at least for manual lens shooters. 

Edited November 9, 2024 by Crem

[jaapv]

I probably should have added “ after properly profiling the camera “ which it needed, not so much for the green shadows, but for the too vibrant reds. Maybe you should read the complete thread you linked to. I specifically address the red-green interaction there. Get the reds right and the green shadows disappeared. 
But this whole thing has absolutely nothing to do with the price of the SL2(S)

[jaapv]

Just like the M11 "magenta" issue - a non-issue by proper camera profiling...

[Cobram]

On 11/9/2024 at 11:06 PM, jaapv said:

Just like the M11 "magenta" issue - a non-issue by proper camera profiling...

😂 😂 Like Lada Niva non-issues with corrosion and motor timing chain after you perform proper bitumen undercoating and chain adjustments.

[jaapv]

53 minutes ago, Cobram said:

😂 😂 Like Lada Niva non-issues with corrosion and motor timing chain after you perform proper bitumen undercoating and chain adjustments.

That is more like the M9….😇

[jaapv]

I don’t quite know what is happening; First I bought a SL2S “used as new” which looked more like a refurb or new-opened box, I followed up by a Summicron 50 SL.”Used as new” and the lens was incorrectly described  it was simply new off the shelf  That and the number or identical items available at MPD makes me wonder whether Leica is clearing stock  

 

[Photoworks]

15 hours ago, jaapv said:

I don’t quite know what is happening; First I bought a SL2S “used as new” which looked more like a refurb or new-opened box, I followed up by a Summicron 50 SL.”Used as new” and the lens was incorrectly described  it was simply new off the shelf  That and the number or identical items available at MPD makes me wonder whether Leica is clearing stock  

 

I would not trust MBD, they say they test and inspect items, but the 3 items I got of Leica lenses were all defective. sent them back.

[jaapv]

Well, I got new gear. The lens was in the sealed outer cardboard box. That means that it was indeed not inspected. 

[Geoff C. Bassett]

MPB is selling a bunch of SL2 for $2100. I'm glad of this, it's my favorite camera and maybe I'll buy a backup in a few years and price won't be absurd. 

[TL3]

The SL line sells itself on the strength of the latest and greatest technology, and it has competition from every other full frame company, I think it's natural to drop in price.  The used market seems pretty flooded now with SL2 bodies, and the SL2S dump is coming in fast as well.

I wasn't planning on getting an SL2, but the prices are becoming quite tempting, so I might end up pulling the trigger.  I'm estimating it could depreciate $1000 more by the time SL4 comes out, so it could be pretty good bang for buck to pick one up now and use for a few years.

[jlinwinter]

I'm for one am super glad for the drop in price! I got my SL2 at around 2600 and while it's not the cheapest one, I'm starting to bond with it!

Makes leica cameras a lot more accessible, and to be honest, the appearance of the S1Rii, S5II and the SL3/SL3-s makes the price drop a no brainer.

A lot of the Leica pricing halo is unjustified for the SL line when the market segment for mirrorless / autofocus is all about mass production and how many units you can move.

I predict when the SL4's come along, the SL3 will also be massively discounted as well.

What I find really interesting is that the SL2 had a much higher listing price than the SL2-S, but in the used market, the SL2-S is commanding higher prices than the SL2. Just shows the difference between what Leica corporate thinks about their cameras vs what actual users think about the relative value.

Edited March 29 by jlinwinter
a bit of additional content

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[colonel]

Although Leica digital bodies depreciate like any other digital camera. They tend to depreciate slower.

However what I have found with Leica bodies is step depreciation. i.e. they keep a robust used price after introduction, and then after 2 years they step down a bit. The next step down is when the successor is released. 

Over time they find stasis, for example original SL, CL, M8 and M9 and M240 bodies have been stable for years, even increasing slightly. This is a combination of inflation and supply/demand.

Leica prices tend not to be influenced much by other brands IMHO. Despite the existence of the S5 for example. I don't think that has changed the SL2 or SL price much. There is the Leica experience, workflow and build, which is what you are buying into. If someone wants a cheaper camera, there is no reason to buy Leica, except for the few models that are unique to the brand. Even with those there is a much cheaper alternative.

Lastly, Leica buyers are enthusiasts, and like Rolex buyers who agonise when Rolex increases or decreases a watch diameter by 0.5mm, small details are important. That is why the SL2-S, with its blacked out logo, or the Mx-P series with no Leica logo, always command a premium that does not seem to correlate with their original price.

There is always a sweet spot at the moment. IMHO the SL sweet spot is the SL2. The high res sensor and handling in excellent condition can be obtained for good prices at the moment. This is the interchangeable camera I would get if I was sensible, which I am not ......

Edited April 1 by colonel