Lightroom 8.0 not showing accurate camera information

[AdrianL]

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I am downloading photos from a M11 Monochrom. However, the camera information does not display the shutter speed and aperture accurately in Lightroom, whether I use the Exposure Compensation or not. How do I correct this? Thanks in advance. 

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[andybarton]

Any reason why you are using Lightroom 8?

The shutter speed should be recorded accurately, but the aperture will always be an estimate. There is no connection between an M lens (mount designed in early 50s) with an M body that can possibly pass through the aperture used . 

The small sensor on the front of the camera is used to guesstimate the aperture used. Often it works fine, regularly it’s a bit off. it’s been like this since the M8 in 2006.

There is nothing that Leica or you can do to improve this. It won’t stop you taking great photos, though. 

[AdrianL]

Andy, appreciate your insight. I am using Lightroom 8.0 because that was the version available when I subscribed. I tried Lightroom Classic too but am not able to transfer the photos from the M11’s internal memory to the program. Thanks for the explanation regarding the camera information.  I was hoping to get a more accurate account of each photo, especially the EV used as a learning tool. You are right that all this has no effect on the quality of the file and the images captured. Thanks again.

[pedaes]

6 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

the EV used

In my experience the EV shown in the exif is regularly a stop out on the actual used value. Any exposure compensation applied is not recorded.

[willeica]

2 hours ago, andybarton said:

Any reason why you are using Lightroom 8?

The shutter speed should be recorded accurately, but the aperture will always be an estimate. There is no connection between an M lens (mount designed in early 50s) with an M body that can possibly pass through the aperture used . 

The small sensor on the front of the camera is used to guesstimate the aperture used. Often it works fine, regularly it’s a bit off. it’s been like this since the M8 in 2006.

There is nothing that Leica or you can do to improve this. It won’t stop you taking great photos, though. 

This is estimate one of the features of a Leica M, there is no electronic recording of the aperture used, just the shutter speed and the ISO. I don't use histograms, I just adjust to what looks right to my eye. My subscription Lightroom is now offering so-called 'AI Generative' features which I am avoiding. I prefer to work on my images using my eyes, just as I have always done. In the darkroom we always work on our images until they 'look right'. It should be the same with Lightroom or Photoshop or whatever takes your fancy. Apertures and shutter speeds are only numbers. Our eyes are the best judges.

William 

[andybarton]

3 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

apart from guessing

It’s not guessing, though, is it?

It’s estimating /assessing based upon the light read by the external sensor compared with that read by the internal meter in the camera. 

There are dozens of threads here on this subject. 

[AdrianL]

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Gentlemen, thanks for all the feedback. My question originated from my desire to understand the sensor of my M11 Monochrom to better protect the highlights which requires me to adjust the exposure compensation. The camera records the EV adjustment but the information does not transfer over to Lightroom. You are all correct about the recording of aperture for a manual lens - no ability to do so and also not necessary. I was just hoping to have the EV recorded in Lightroom as I work on the image to better understand how I should be taking the shot in the future. Thanks again for the discussion.

[jaapv]

Not all highlights need protecting, only those that contain details relevant to the image. Trying to pull down all highlights can result in vastly underexposed images. 

[andybarton]

23 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

an estimate is a prediction based on verifiable facts

Exactly. 

The camera has two verifiable facts - the reading from the blue sensor and the reading through the lens. It uses these readings to estimate the aperture. 

You’re welcome 😉 

[andybarton]

43 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

Gentlemen, thanks for all the feedback. My question originated from my desire to understand the sensor of my M11 Monochrom to better protect the highlights which requires me to adjust the exposure compensation. The camera records the EV adjustment but the information does not transfer over to Lightroom. You are all correct about the recording of aperture for a manual lens - no ability to do so and also not necessary. I was just hoping to have the EV recorded in Lightroom as I work on the image to better understand how I should be taking the shot in the future. Thanks again for the discussion.

Does Lightroom 8 actually read M11 Monochrom files?

[andybarton]

There are two independent facts.

The reading from the blue sensor. The reading from the camera sensor. 

By comparing these two factual readings, the computer estimates the aperature. 

The blue sensor obviously cannot read the same light as that through the lens. But the camera can use this independent information to estimate the aperture used. 
 

Edit: I should remember to use the “Quote” button…

[AdrianL]

Lightroom 8.0 worked seamlessly with the M11M. Recognized the camera connected by USB and transferred over the files from the camera’s internal memory. For some reason, I was not able to do the same with Lightroom Classic. 

[andybarton]

Can you get Classic to read the SD card? That should easily be possible. 

[AdrianL]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

You will only protect the highlights by underexposing. The trade-off is the noise in shadows and some loss of DR, but the former is easily mended with AI tools.

That’s the beauty of the M11, you are able to retrieve so much information from the shadows. With the monochrom, you are also able to push the ISO. 

[AdrianL]

33 minutes ago, andybarton said:

Can you get Classic to read the SD card? That should easily be possible. 

For some reason, I am not able to get Lightroom Classic to read my SD card. Too embarrassing to even bring it up. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, andybarton said:

Does Lightroom 8 actually read M11 Monochrom files?

Lightroom Desktop 8.0 was released last week. It's the cloud version of Lightroom Classic. Its camera support is identical to Classic (and Adobe Camera Raw)

[adan]

Hmmm - my Adobe Camera Raw (16.1.1.1733) shows the M11 Exposure compensation used, right in the top section of the metadata, beside the metering mode icon. (And I don't even use an M11 regularly - this was just a test image with a friend's M11).

If there is NO exposure compensation used - it will be blank.

And it is from 2022 - maybe the various firmware ugrades since have dropped the EC metadata along the way. But I doubt it.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Hmmm - my Adobe Camera Raw (16.1.1.1733) shows the M11 Exposure compensation used, right in the top section of the metadata, beside the metering mode icon. (And I don't even use an M11 regularly - this was just a test image with a friend's M11).

If there is NO exposure compensation used - it will be blank.

And it is from 2022 - maybe the various firmware ugrades since have dropped the EC metadata along the way. But I doubt it.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Lightroom Desktop (that the OP is using) has an extremely limited display of metadata, and the exposure compensation is not available.

Like ACR, Lightroom Classic does show the exposure compensation using the "Exposure Bias" field. 

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