My New Defective MP

[photog_6]

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I recently purchased a new Leica MP camera from Leica Store Bellevue (WA USA). Unfortunately I discovered, outside of the 2-week return window, the frame counter on my new MP did not work. I contacted Leica Store Bellevue and was told “The best course of action is to send the camera to Leica Customer Care (in Teaneck, NJ).” They emailed me a completed repair form & UPS shipping label. Their email closed with “I hope this helps and that customer care can quickly repair your camera.” My new MP with a factory defect had become my responsibility to track & resolve.

Leica Customer Care received my new MP 9/11/2024. It was inspected and placed in ‘Service Order in Progress’ status 9/16/2024. As of today, 10/17/2024, my new MP is still in ’Service Order in Progress’

This was the 4th Leica camera I have purchased from Leica Store Bellevue. So this is not my first Leica and it is not my only Leica. But it is my last Leica

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[grahamc]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience.  I had a long drawn out (and ultimately unsatisfactory) experience last year and am in the same boat - i.e.  Any Leica I buy in the future will not be from Leica 

[fault on arrival with an item I purchased was not rectified even at the end of a huge wait and a lot of inconvenience/ poor communication ....so I sent to DAG, who fixed it and returned it in 3 weeks performing amazingly]  

Shame it was at my expense but it did give me a laugh as DAG's diagnosis/fix was: "Incorrectly assembled. Reassembled correctly"

Edited October 18, 2024 by grahamc

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, grahamc said:

"Incorrectly assembled. Reassembled correctly"

brilliant

 

[egrossman]

This is terrible customer service. I would definitely use another Leica dealer that really cares for your business going forward.

Erik

[grahamc]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

brilliant

 

Last stop before DAG: Wetzlar 🤣

[Derbyshire Man]

6 hours ago, photog_6 said:

I recently purchased a new Leica MP camera from Leica Store Bellevue (WA USA). Unfortunately I discovered, outside of the 2-week return window, the frame counter on my new MP did not work. I contacted Leica Store Bellevue and was told “The best course of action is to send the camera to Leica Customer Care (in Teaneck, NJ).” They emailed me a completed repair form & UPS shipping label. Their email closed with “I hope this helps and that customer care can quickly repair your camera.” My new MP with a factory defect had become my responsibility to track & resolve.

Leica Customer Care received my new MP 9/11/2024. It was inspected and placed in ‘Service Order in Progress’ status 9/16/2024. As of today, 10/17/2024, my new MP is still in ’Service Order in Progress’

This was the 4th Leica camera I have purchased from Leica Store Bellevue. So this is not my first Leica and it is not my only Leica. But it is my last Leica

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

No doubt it's different in the states but repairs in the UK must be within a reasonable time frame. For a brand new, very expensive camera, a reasonable time frame is likely to be 2 weeks or so. My feeling would be that they should simply supply a new camera, have yours repaired and resell as B-stock, factory refurbished. Why on earth should you suffer after paying out so handsomely? That benefits neither you nor the store.

I've had similar experience in the UK with Leica officially where a camera with a dodgy shutter button on delivery was to be sent off for assessment and repair when one day old, er - no!

I think the reason is that these items are so expensive no one wants to take the hit on DOA stock. However, if customers put up with this then it risks encouraging sloppy QC in a company which has record breaking profits. 

I don't mind the profits per se, as customers we benefit from a healthy corporation that can take risks with low production runs like M11D and the monochrom series but firmware, QC and repair timescales should be optimal for the sake of the customers and long term company success.

Someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm being negative/troll/causing them cognitive dissonance. FTAOD I like the cameras and the brand but quality and service matter.

Edited October 18, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[Mute-on]

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6 hours ago, photog_6 said:

I recently purchased a new Leica MP camera from Leica Store Bellevue (WA USA). Unfortunately I discovered, outside of the 2-week return window, the frame counter on my new MP did not work. I contacted Leica Store Bellevue and was told “The best course of action is to send the camera to Leica Customer Care (in Teaneck, NJ).” They emailed me a completed repair form & UPS shipping label. Their email closed with “I hope this helps and that customer care can quickly repair your camera.” My new MP with a factory defect had become my responsibility to track & resolve.

Leica Customer Care received my new MP 9/11/2024. It was inspected and placed in ‘Service Order in Progress’ status 9/16/2024. As of today, 10/17/2024, my new MP is still in ’Service Order in Progress’

This was the 4th Leica camera I have purchased from Leica Store Bellevue. So this is not my first Leica and it is not my only Leica. But it is my last Leica

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I’m sorry to say your mistake was accepting the response from Leica Store Bellevue and then acting on that response. What you might have done was tell them their response was unsatisfactory and that you wanted a replacement of a defective product that was defective on arrival (DOA), not after use for some period.

Of course the fact a new Leica film camera is defective is unsatisfactory, but sadly not uncommon. What is unacceptable is treating this as a warranty claim for repair rather than replacement. The suggestion to use another Leica dealer is well made. 

[hansvons]

7 hours ago, photog_6 said:

So this is not my first Leica and it is not my only Leica. But it is my last Leica

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. 

As you probably know, Leica fell victim to their success and the terrible worker shortage that got even worse after Covid, which is now the number one showstopper in Germany’s economy.

I know from the horse’s mouth that the management is well aware of the preposterous situation that many of their customers experience when service is required. Unfortunately, much of this service is repair and not a simple replacement, which requires highly skilled workers who are not readily available. This is not a greed or cultural problem, ignorance and whatnot. It’s foremost a hard to solve puzzle that requires highly skilled human resource management and customer service communications, which is also hardly coping with the demand. I’m not sure whether the latter is on Leica’s radar. 

 

Edited October 18, 2024 by hansvons

[Mute-on]

3 hours ago, hansvons said:

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. 

As you probably know, Leica fell victim to their success and the terrible worker shortage that got even worse after Covid, which is now the number one showstopper in Germany’s economy.

I know from the horse’s mouth that the management is well aware of the preposterous situation that many of their customers experience when service is required. Unfortunately, much of this service is repair and not a simple replacement, which requires highly skilled workers who are not readily available. This is not a greed or cultural problem, ignorance and whatnot. It’s foremost a hard to solve puzzle that requires highly skilled human resource management and customer service communications, which is also hardly coping with the demand. I’m not sure whether the latter is on Leica’s radar. 

 

I rather beg to differ. It is entirely a greed and (feigning) ignorance problem. Sell a 10,000-15,000 dollar, euro, ‘your currency equivalent’ camera gleefully to an unsuspecting, probably very excited customer, then when it fails (since you were in such a hurry to get it on the shelf you dropped the ball on development and/or QC) hide behind a labour/expertise shortage to take an interest free loan from said customer while you sit on your hands (or wring them) praying for a miracle to help you fix the problem before you end up with a class action or sanctioned by a retail organisation. Give me a break.

No enterprise deserves to expect understanding or support from the consumer whilst they are incapable of supporting their own product. If they had any ethics at all, they would not be selling such product until or unless they had a commercially viable and appropriate means of supporting it. Anything else is pure gaslighting. 

[delta100]

Join the club! Read my post further down the main list regarding MPs and MAs.

[photog_6]

11 hours ago, egrossman said:

This is terrible customer service. I would definitely use another Leica dealer that really cares for your business going forward.

Erik

Good idea. But I won't need another Leica dealer. 

 

7 hours ago, hansvons said:

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. 

As you probably know, Leica fell victim to their success and the terrible worker shortage that got even worse after Covid, which is now the number one showstopper in Germany’s economy.

I know from the horse’s mouth that the management is well aware of the preposterous situation that many of their customers experience when service is required. Unfortunately, much of this service is repair and not a simple replacement, which requires highly skilled workers who are not readily available. This is not a greed or cultural problem, ignorance and whatnot. It’s foremost a hard to solve puzzle that requires highly skilled human resource management and customer service communications, which is also hardly coping with the demand. I’m not sure whether the latter is on Leica’s radar. 

 

Leica is not the only company or industry with worker issues. But the lack of communications exacerbates an already unacceptable situation. In my case I have no idea if my camera is simply in a long line of cameras needing repair, or if parts needed are unavailable at the Service Center and they are waiting delivery of replacement parts. Or if the factory is waiting for enough orders to manufacture the needed part(s). The possibilities go on. And so does the frustration

[LocalHero1953]

I can accept the 'can't get the staff these days' excuse, as I know no different, and others here support that as a fact of life in Germany. Maybe they should outsource repair to China.

What I can't accept is:

• No online tracking of items sent for repair: Leica, buy a system off the shelf and integrate it into technicians' work plans. You have the money. I suspect Wetzlar still runs on paper forms and handwriting.
• Delays because 'we are waiting for a part': for current, recent and a good many older models, buy or make all the parts you need right at the beginning.
• Hand-signed warranty cards stating that the item has been inspected at every stage of manufacture. They are clearly not, so get rid of them to avoid embarrassment. Retrain the inspector as a repair technician: win-win.

The case reported above should not occur in Europe (incl. UK). Here the shop you bought it from is responsible for solving problems with it. (I'm sure there are some shops here that try to assign responsibility to 'head office').

Edit. BTW I'm a happy MP owner, as of January, but I feel for the OP

Edited October 18, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[photog_6]

8 hours ago, Mute-on said:

I’m sorry to say your mistake was accepting the response from Leica Store Bellevue and then acting on that response. What you might have done was tell them their response was unsatisfactory and that you wanted a replacement of a defective product that was defective on arrival (DOA), not after use for some period.

Of course the fact a new Leica film camera is defective is unsatisfactory, but sadly not uncommon. What is unacceptable is treating this as a warranty claim for repair rather than replacement. The suggestion to use another Leica dealer is well made. 

You are correct about accepting Leica Store Bellevue response. I have a M6 2022 Reissue without any faults. I bought into the accolades about the MP and the Mechanical Perfection rumors. I gave no thought to it also meaning Made Poorly.

[earleygallery]

This is very poor dealer service. Things go wrong, that’s just a fact, but it’s how it’s dealt with that matters to me.

Your dealer has basically delegated this problem to you to deal with. At the very least they should have handled the return and pressed for a quick turnaround, and offered a loan camera to you if needed. 
 

Consumer laws obviously differ but in the UK you would have been entitled to a replacement or refund for a faulty item that soon after purchase.

[Crem]

Your situation is clearly unacceptable. One thing that might help… Ask about their loaner program. Multiple times I was offered a loaner by Leica NJ while getting a warranty repair in Germany that was going to take a long time. Let them know you are upset and a good customer. Your dealer may have their own loaner program separate from Leica corporate.

[Viewfinder_vandals]

Workaround time for analog Cameras is 10 months now. 5K blown in the wind. Never ever buy a new Leica. I Hope for you they‘ll hurry. 

[Derbyshire Man]

16 minutes ago, Viewfinder_vandals said:

Workaround time for analog Cameras is 10 months now. 5K blown in the wind. Never ever buy a new Leica. I Hope for you they‘ll hurry. 

Yes, I fancy an MP but I suspect it will be used and well worn. In the guitar world one pays extra for 'relic' status, in the camera world one saves £££!

There's one for sale from a dealer at a reasonable price but it has a dent on the top cover. Although I'd get it with warranty my guess is future purchasers would be wondering what that said about the rangefinder etc.

I do feel sorry for Wetzlar, I realise they care. They could do much better though with updates and in particular a booking system whereby you are told 2-3 weeks prior that your slot has arrived. Dead cameras could then be prioritised and those of us with niggles wouldn't need to lose cameras for 6 months. I've used Skyllaney for lenses and they run such a system very efficiently despite having a similar waiting list I'm usually without the lens for only 3 weeks not 6 months.

Edited October 18, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[photog_6]

1 hour ago, Crem said:

Your situation is clearly unacceptable. One thing that might help… Ask about their loaner program. Multiple times I was offered a loaner by Leica NJ while getting a warranty repair in Germany that was going to take a long time. Let them know you are upset and a good customer. Your dealer may have their own loaner program separate from Leica corporate.

Thank you for the suggestion. But I have a M6 2022 Reissue that works fine (and 3 digital Leicas). I planned to use the MP for color and my M6 for B&W

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[69xchange]

I wouldn’t have accepted Leica Bellevue’s response. I would have demanded to speak with a manager if only two weeks have elapsed and they weren’t willing to provide an exchange (given the repair times at Germany). If they refuse an exchange, I would have escalated this my credit card company. And the least they SHOULD offer is to handle the situation for you rather than delegating the responsibility to you. Horrible customer service…

[photog_6]

22 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

I wouldn’t have accepted Leica Bellevue’s response. I would have demanded to speak with a manager if only two weeks have elapsed and they weren’t willing to provide an exchange (given the repair times at Germany). If they refuse an exchange, I would have escalated this my credit card company. And the least they SHOULD offer is to handle the situation for you rather than delegating the responsibility to you. Horrible customer service…

I was outside the 2-week return window when I discovered the defect(s). The return terms & conditions are on the receipt. But this was 4th new Leica camera I purchased from this store (M11M, M6, Q3, and this defective MP). The defective MP could have been replaced