Gut Wrenching Day - M11-P cracked rear LCD monitor

[LocalHero1953]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

15 hours ago, Corius said:

In any case, there are far too many variables to infer anything about the relative strengths of the two screens

My inference is that the M11, coming from a legendary heritage of war photography, should not get a broken screen in a padded camera bag on a bicycle. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Stuart Richardson]

20 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My inference is that the M11, coming from a legendary heritage of war photography, should not get a broken screen in a padded camera bag on a bicycle. 

 I don't think that is a proper inference. I have to agree with Corius. For example, I have a glass table at my studio for fifteen years now that is made from tempered glass. It can support at least 150kg, and the guy who sold it to me told me I can jump up and down on it and it will be completely fine. That said, I know that if I use one of those safety glass breaking hammers they sell to get out of a car underwater, for example, a moderate tap will blow it to pieces. These kinds of glass are under extreme tension. That is what gives them their strength. But, if they are impacted in the right way, they shatter. That is simply just the physics of the material. It is also why NASA had Omega use plastic for the watch glass on the Speedmaster Professional that people wore to the moon. It scratches much more easily, but there is no way for it to shatter. Crystal is much more resistant to scratches, but when subjected to the right force it will shatter. The M11 screen will not have shattered from light vibration in a padded pouch. It clearly hit something hard enough and sharp enough to shatter. How it did that is anyone's guess. In the future I would recommend a leather half case and screen protector. Since that is tight around the camera and covers the screen itself, it should allow for more secure transport, especially in this kind of environment.

[Stuart Richardson]

Also M's did not have big glass screens on the back of them until the M8, and certainly not needing one is going to increase the perceived durability. You can't shatter what isn't there.

Edited October 18, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

 I don't think that is a proper inference.

OK, I agree it's the wrong inference to draw from just one incident. But I still would not expect a camera like the M11, sold as rugged, to get a broken screen in a padded handlebar bag. I assume the OP to have told us if there was an obvious impact, or another hard object in the bag. FWIW, the Ortlieb Ultimate 6 is held away from hard parts of the bike and can only be struck by an external item. It bounces springily, but it doesn't strike things on the bike (I can't answer for the OP's bag).

[maxpower]

Not really super relevant but thought it'd be good to be a bit pedantic and clarify that the M11 and M11-P have different type of glass on their LCD, with the P (and Monochrom) being Sapphire and the non-P most likely also being the Gorilla Glass that the Q3 (and probably earlier) uses. The D of course has the best display of all, none.

To quote the iPhone testing/breaking YouTuber: Glass is glass, and glass breaks.

[Stuart Richardson]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

OK, I agree it's the wrong inference to draw from just one incident. But I still would not expect a camera like the M11, sold as rugged, to get a broken screen in a padded handlebar bag. I assume the OP to have told us if there was an obvious impact, or another hard object in the bag. FWIW, the Ortlieb Ultimate 6 is held away from hard parts of the bike and can only be struck by an external item. It bounces springily, but it doesn't strike things on the bike (I can't answer for the OP's bag).

I also would not expect it, but here we are. But as far as I am aware, there is no well established pattern of this, is there? I have not heard of anyone else's M cameras having screens broken under benign circumstances. So it seems like this, unfortunately, is bad luck. I don't think it is responsible to characterize it as some failing of durability of the M11 when the sample size is 1 and the circumstances under which it occurred are unclear even to the person to whom it happened. Looking at the damage, it seems like something hard hit the center bottom part of the screen...that looks like impact damage. If the crack came from stress in the camera body shell the cracks would most likely radiate out from the corners or edges as the forces caused the body to deform. At least to me, this does not look like it. This looks like something hard hit the bottom central portion of the screen.

In any case, to me this seems like bad luck, not any particular fault. Hopefully Leica will fix it quickly (it should be an easy fix...I believe the screens are just glued on) and have it back in his hands before the broccoli is harvested!

[Robert Blanko]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Car windows are usually very hard and stable - nevertheless it is very easy to break the tempered glass with a tiny emergency hammer having a small tip.

I guess this similarly applies to display glass covers.

[Whafe]

6 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I also would not expect it, but here we are. But as far as I am aware, there is no well established pattern of this, is there? I have not heard of anyone else's M cameras having screens broken under benign circumstances. So it seems like this, unfortunately, is bad luck. I don't think it is responsible to characterise it as some failing of durability of the M11 when the sample size is 1 and the circumstances under which it occurred are unclear even to the person to whom it happened. Looking at the damage, it seems like something hard hit the center bottom part of the screen...that looks like impact damage. If the crack came from stress in the camera body shell the cracks would most likely radiate out from the corners or edges as the forces caused the body to deform. At least to me, this does not look like it. This looks like something hard hit the bottom central portion of the screen.

In any case, to me this seems like bad luck, not any particular fault. Hopefully Leica will fix it quickly (it should be an easy fix...I believe the screens are just glued on) and have it back in his hands before the broccoli is harvested!

Hi All, a HUGE thank you for all the responses to my wee post, sharing what has happened. I am NOT being overly sensitive, however I would like to share a few thoughts if I may.

A few key points I made:

• This is totally my fault
• I am not sharing for trying to get something for free
• My other Leica is a Q2, not a Q3 as has been written many times in responses
• I am not being slippery with what has happened, if in fact I knew why the screen had cracked I would say.
• My key point with posting was - I am perplexed in that I have carried my Q2 in my handlebar bag, which is lined with full padding out of a LowePro camera bag, for some 3 + years, nearing 20,000 KM, both off-road and of course, on road. The Q2 has been bomb-proof. I have carried the M11-P for around 3 months in the SAME handlebar bag, not been off road. Am extremely surprised to what has happened
• AGAIN, it is my fault. The learning is that the M11-P is not as rugged as the Q2
• I also have in my mind, I got the P M11 version, thinking it is a reporter model, that it would be slightly more rugged than the standard M11..
• I love this camera, it has put me on an insane learning adventure, to need to process that this will take 6 months to sort, is a poo sandwich. Again, I accept this though.

As always, your thoughts are appreciated

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Stuart Richardson]

Just for the record, I don't think you are being slippery! We just don't know what happened. Because of that, I don't think relative amounts of time it spent in a padded bag mean that one is durable and one is not. For example, what if you left your bike for a moment with the camera in it, someone knocked it over and then picked it back up. That could have been how it happened. I would guess that you take your camera with you so this is unlikely, but my point is just that since you don't recall or did not notice the specific event that caused the issue, it is hard to say whether or not the camera was durable or not in response to the actual thing that caused it to be damaged.

In any case, I am not going to press the point further. I hope your camera gets fixed quickly and that nothing like this happens for anyone in the future!

[username]

47 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

my point is just that since you don't recall or did not notice the specific event that caused the issue, it is hard to say whether or not the camera was durable or not

..this, basically 💁‍♂️

No offense @Whafe - but it's really hard to wrap my head around how your takeaway from this is "the M11-P is not as rugged as the Q2".

There's no way that screen cracked just by the camera sitting in (or merely being carried around in) that padded bag. You do realize this, right?
There must have been some kind of impact - a pretty hard one at that - which would surely have cracked a Q2's (or whatever camera's) screen as well.

 

[hdmesa]

15 hours ago, Whafe said:

• AGAIN, it is my fault. The learning is that the M11-P is not as rugged as the Q2

Sorry, but this is you gaslighting yourself. Pick one or the other way to think.

Maybe your camera is like Schrödinger's cat, and it only cracked because you opened the bag and looked at it.

[caf]

I had my M11 screen replaced by Leica USA in NJ, the job was impeccable and they also replaced the leatherette in the process (may be necessary) and I believe it is attached to some kind of circuit board so that needs to be replaced also, overall was like a $600 job. Not cheap but not as much as I thought it was going to be for all the work they did.

[jgeenen]

From specifications and controlled testing the M11-P glass is more durable than the Q2 glass. Your unlucky event told you the opposite. Quite frankly, I don‘t know if the break was the consequence of unlucky conditions, a pre-introduced tension within the glass or really a particular weakness of sapphire glass. You might ask Leica to replace the broken glass with a standard M11 glass (which has similar specs as the Q2 glass). Not sure if they do this but I don’t see any technical reason why it should be impossible.

[hdmesa]

43 minutes ago, jgeenen said:

From specifications and controlled testing the M11-P glass is more durable than the Q2 glass. Your unlucky event told you the opposite. Quite frankly, I don‘t know if the break was the consequence of unlucky conditions, a pre-introduced tension within the glass or really a particular weakness of sapphire glass. You might ask Leica to replace the broken glass with a standard M11 glass (which has similar specs as the Q2 glass). Not sure if they do this but I don’t see any technical reason why it should be impossible.

That would be a downgrade and lower the value of the camera. You might pick up an inkling of impact strength only to lose out to scratch resistance. Trust me, it's much more likely you'll need to protect the screen from scratches than from impacts.

Installing a screen protector would be a better thing to try, IMO. It might help soften the blow from the kind of sharp objects that tend to shatter glass.

[Whafe]

On 10/20/2024 at 10:10 AM, caf said:

I had my M11 screen replaced by Leica USA in NJ, the job was impeccable and they also replaced the leatherette in the process (may be necessary) and I believe it is attached to some kind of circuit board so that needs to be replaced also, overall was like a $600 job. Not cheap but not as much as I thought it was going to be for all the work they did.

Fantastic to hear this @caf, HUGE thank you for sharing

[douglas ball]

Timely subject. This morning I went out with my M9P and M246 both hanging on straps around my neck. I also pulled my blue box down a couple of steps and the cameras swung forward and hit each other. I noticed after that that the screen on the M9P now had a chip mark. It was the first time I ever did this. However an hour later and climbing through a fence I leaned forward again, and again the cameras hit each other. Now I have two areas that show tiny cracks.  Luckily on the same camera. As they say stupid is as stupid does.

[Herr Barnack]

On 10/19/2024 at 11:38 AM, Quarterpounder said:

Sell it, its a Lenny Kravitz special design limited edition.

It would have to have the leatherette covering painted to look like a woman's Naugahyde purse bought at Wal Mart.

Edited October 28, 2024 by Herr Barnack