Self refill ink for Epson large format printer

[Einst_Stein]

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I have very small print volume. In the earlier years, I had bad experiences with self-refill ink, but that was over ten years ago.

what is the common thought for now? Assuming the target printer is Epson P700 or P900, would you buy and use self-refill kit?

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[hansvons]

The high-quality big printing shops like Whitewall don't do it and use original inks, and they are always looking to optimize their workflow. Why should I do it when I want the best possible result with the least amount of trouble? 

That said, if I were in the market for a new sheet printer for medium-sized prints, the new Canon Pro 1100 seems to be the best alternative now. I own its larger brother (Pro 4600) and can only say the best about it in regards of costs, results, and handling. 

[Jeff S]

OEM only for me.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, hansvons said:

That said, if I were in the market for a new sheet printer for medium-sized prints, the new Canon Pro 1100 seems to be the best alternative now. I own its larger brother (Pro 4600) and can only say the best about it in regards of costs, results, and handling. 

The OP is a very low volume printer.  Not ideal for the larger machines, or for Canon pro machines in general, which are designed for frequent use.  Canon uses hot firing heads that produce residue, therefore having mandatory automatic cleaning cycles that cannot be avoided. Ink WILL get used one way or the other; either making prints or through clean cycles.  (This is why the Canon heads are user replaceable; heads will eventually wear out.) Epson uses different ‘cold’ firing print head technology, with user controlled print cycles.  Clogging is possible with idle machines, but much improved with later models, and one can avoid by running a test print (or brief clean cycle) now and then.

Jeff

[Einst_Stein]

6 hours ago, hansvons said:

The high-quality big printing shops like Whitewall don't do it and use original inks, and they are always looking to optimize their workflow. Why should I do it when I want the best possible result with the least amount of trouble? 

That said, if I were in the market for a new sheet printer for medium-sized prints, the new Canon Pro 1100 seems to be the best alternative now. I own its larger brother (Pro 4600) and can only say the best about it in regards of costs, results, and handling. 

Thanks for the recommendaion, but I have decided on EPSON P700 or P900 for personal preference. I am only curious whether self-refill can bring down the costs to motivate more print volume. 

But it doesn't seem encouraging yet.

[Einst_Stein]

I have bad expereiences on cheap tonal for HP Laserjet, both colored and B&W. The quality is bad after about half way. And it needs frequent uninstall-shaking-reinstall. But that is long time ago. 

For inkjet, my basic criteria are, if the ink catridge is encouraging:

1: Must use original ink to ensure color compatibility. 
2: Must have reliable air tight ink bottle seal to ensure the freshness.
3: Must have low defect rate in terms of defective prints. After all, the paper costs per print is higher than the ink.

I have watched many good and bad reports on youtube, but I am not sure who or if they are trustwoth.

 

[LocalHero1953]

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I used refillable cartridges (Permajet) for a while with the Epson 3800. The print quality was fine, but I had more frequent clogging problems (which may or may not have been the fault of the printer rather than the ink). I have had a P800 for several years, always kept to Epson cartridges, and had no clogging problems. Read into that what you will.

[Al Brown]

2 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Thanks for the recommendaion, but I have decided on EPSON P700 or P900 for personal preference. I am only curious whether self-refill can bring down the costs to motivate more print volume. 

But it doesn't seem encouraging yet.

Epson used to be "when one ink is out I SHALL NOT PRINT AT ALL". That was the reason I ditched it and moved to Canon printers which, unlike Epson, did print with one ink out. Very satisfied. Refilling, now that is a nightmare both with Canon or Epson due to the chip on the cartridge.

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Epson used to be "when one ink is out I SHALL NOT PRINT AT ALL". That was the reason I ditched it and moved to Canon printers which, unlike Epson, did print with one ink out. Very satisfied. Refilling, now that is a nightmare both with Canon or Epson due to the chip on the cartridge.

Epson’s all-ink requirement seems very reasonable and for the benefits of users, except, when you know you are only printing B&W that can ignore none black inks. 

If you consistently used the same refill source, there should be no color compatibility problem, assume you have your own proper ICC.  If mix the ink from different sources it is very likely not compatible.

Do you see color difference between the third party ink and Canon?

Edited September 29, 2024 by Einst_Stein

[Pieter12]

On 9/29/2024 at 11:43 AM, Einst_Stein said:

Epson’s all-ink requirement seems very reasonable and for the benefits of users, except, when you know you are only printing B&W that can ignore none black inks. 

If you consistently used the same refill source, there should be no color compatibility problem, assume you have your own proper ICC.  If mix the ink from different sources it is very likely not compatible.

Do you see color difference between the third party ink and Canon?

When I purchased my Epson R3000 printer years ago, the Epson's black and white prints were better than Canon's. But my issue today is that Epson ink is getting harder to find for the R3000. I would rather not be forced to buy another printer, I hate inkjet printers in general. I may have to try third-party or refillable cartridges, like the ones from Inkjet Mall. Even those might not be available soon. I might just end up with a cheap printer and outsource for the good stuff.

[LocalHero1953]

For photography, the problem with third party inks is that you need a new set of paper profiles for accurate colours - I know from experience with the Epson R3000 that the printing colours were quite different with third party inks. The ink supplier had a custom print profile service that worked well, but in the end I learned to make my own profiles. With the P800 I’ve returned to Epson inks and readily available profiles. 

[Einst_Stein]

Inkjet printer is all about ink. If you can find a happy third party ink, then any printer would work for you. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think Epson makes some printers that are more geared towards volume business and office work that feature refillable tanks, but the high end photo market is very locked down. I don't think this is worth it, especially if you are not doing large volumes. I know for my business at least there is no way in hell I would use a third party ink company. If something goes wrong and the ink fades rapidly you could be held liable by the client (even if it is not a lawsuit or free replacement, it is extremely bad PR for the company). If the ink itself is not ideally compatible with the printer, you are essentially destroying the printer (good luck cleaning the lines without major effort). And of course your warranty is completely invalidated. Anyway, I think it is different if you are doing it for yourself...you are only really risking your own neck (and potentially your buyers).

All this said, there can be some specific instances where the third party ink is well tested and has a long reputation or does something otherwise unattainable (I am thinking BW Piezography from Jon Cone, for example). But in general I think ink is quite a bit more complicated than most people realize. Epson for example has the pigment particles micro-encapsulated and is designed in such a way to both flow smoothly and cleanly through the head, but also resist fading for decades. With third party...well, honestly who knows what they are doing? Unless they are a massive company, someone else is probably making the pigment for them, and so you are putting yourself in a position where you have to trust two more or less unknowns -- the people selling the ink, and whomever makes it for them. In a business context at least I cannot imagine how I could do that.

[david strachan]

I wasted nearly a year trying to use refillable after market inks with my first Canon printer. Couldn't get the colours quite right  and some terrible aging affects...turning to red ,  colours all changing, fading etc. These were pigment inks sworn to be perfectly compatible with my printer.

Now with my Epson R3000 I only use (expensive) genuine ink cartridges and never have any problems and usually getting my A3+ prints perfect first time. They look lovely as they age with no change in appearance.

Also my printer doesn't clog.  If I haven't printed for a while I'll do a printer head test print, and or, a small 6x4 colour print.

No need to wish for a better printer.