Leica 35mm F2 ASPH M APO - Views and comments please

[patrickcolpron]

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11 minutes ago, otto.f said:

This, for instance, was made on a walk through the jungle in Penang with the APO as the only lens on my shoulder. The butterfly was about 3m away from me. Cropping is so easy with this lens, in combination of course with the 40Mp of the M10-R.

That is a really cool and clear photo but I don't see the need for close focusing in it, you cropped it. 

The question is how many times have you used the 30 cm MCF with the APO 35 since you purchased it, does it make a real difference? 

I know I have used it less than 6 times since I purchased it, a few months after it was announced. 

For me it is gimmicky but I mostly shoot street candids and food photos. 

I don't shoot plants, flowers or butterflies, my needs and usage may be different. 

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[graphlex]

For plants and butterflies the Macro-Elmar is a better choice.  

[costa43]

You will get a myriad of opinions on here, especially when it comes to lenses on the extreme end of the ‘character’ spectrum such as this one. 

I’ve never used a q3 but I have owned this lens and I’m confident in saying that this lens will perform better on a technical level across the frame than the 28 on the Q. That lens has well documented compromises in corner performance, this lens has none of that. Its tack sharp from corner to corner, wide open or stopped down, it makes no difference in sharpness to my eye bar some slight improvement to corner vignetting. 

My own personal experience with it though was rather short lived, I ended up selling my copy as I lean more towards the other end of the character spectrum and enjoy imperfect lenses a little more, I had to try a lot of glass over the last few years to know this for sure. I picked up the Summilux pre asph v2 as its replacement and pocketed 5k in change. A decision that I’ve not regretted. 

There is another potential offering on the horizon for a 60mp APO option. Leica is rumoured to release a q3 with a 43mm APO lens in the next couple of weeks. I would expect that lens to be pretty amazing. 
 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2024 by costa43

[otto.f]

18 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

you cropped it. 

high micro-contrast > more leeway for cropping than with other 35's

[patrickcolpron]

11 minutes ago, otto.f said:

high micro-contrast > more leeway for cropping than with other 35's

Not sure that's what I meant but we were talking about 30cm close focusing and that was a shot made at 1 meter away 😉 But that works too! 

[patrickcolpron]

Adam, the OP, must be confused like crazy with all these side-ish mini-topics and discussions about the pros and cons of this lens.

Just get it, and because no words can show what it can do, here is a photo, bellow, of my youngest, Hobbes, made with an M11 and an APO 35 at the end of last winter, shot wide open without anything done to the photo aside for a slight color correction since the M11 leans on the magenta side.

You will love the M11 and APO 35 as one camera, one lens solution, enjoy it. (And it would be great to know what you decided to do eventually.)

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Edited September 16, 2024 by patrickcolpron
as my youngest would say, because because!

[Almizilero]

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I'll throw in my couple of cents as well, as I'm just having the APO and the “King of Bokeh” together at the moment.

I did a couple of test shots of same-ish situations (nothing scientific) and for me, it comes down to this: The APO is quite perfect and a great one does all lens. But then again, if one wants that, why not stick with the Q? The only thing the APO does not really have is character. It just does an amazing but unassuming job.The Summicron 35 V4 has loads of that. The images just have a unique 3D look when everything falls into place.

I also noticed that the shots taken with the APO always have a little less in the frame than the KoB. Maybe the KoB is a little wider than 35, maybe the APO is a little longer or it's down to some in camera jiggery pokery.

Here's two examples, simply taken for testing with the M11, without any artistic value. Full images, unedited out of Lightroom, same White Balance settings (so notice the colour difference!) First is KoB, second is APO. Followed by a 100% view. Yes, the APO is much sharper when pixel peeping, but do you really notice it in the full shots?

 

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[Almizilero]

And another round, This time APO first, then KoB:

 

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[TheEyesHaveIt]

Is the Light Lens Lab 35 8-elements a good approximation for the KoB?

[Lee S]

Lovely shot.

Did you use Visoflex/Liveview for this?

Looks to be taken from around 0.7m and at F2 and the depth of field is around a cm at a pixel level on a 60MP sensor!

[patrickcolpron]

18 hours ago, Almizilero said:

And another round, This time APO first, then KoB:

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It is subtle but I prefer the out of focus rendering of the V4 35 Cron over the APO and for portraits the skin looks better, smoother with the V4.

I didn't realize the V4 could be wider than the APO, I'll test that one today 

[patrickcolpron]

14 minutes ago, Lee S said:

Lovely shot.

Did you use Visoflex/Liveview for this?

Looks to be taken from around 0.7m and at F2 and the depth of field is around a cm at a pixel level on a 60MP sensor!

Thank you, that was most likely shot at 70cm but will retake a portrait of my kid at 70 again to be sure, I would have used the range finder patch in the optical viewfinder, I always get sharper results this way. 
 

I don't use the Visoflex at all these days, it is an hindrance and slows down the act of making a photo. 

I get better results with the optical view finder for portraits when shooting wide open, this is why I say that close focusing is gimmicky with a Range Finder because the ranger finder itself feels and has been more accurate for me in nailing sharp focus, if that makes sense.

Edited September 17, 2024 by patrickcolpron
Visoflex

[snz]

On 9/12/2024 at 4:00 PM, AdamMark said:

 

• Sharpness in the mid frame, edges and corners wide open and at F5.6 , F8 and F11 ?
• How it compares to the Q3 lens ?

 

As a previous owner of the Q1/2/3 (variant) and current owner of the APO 35mm: The APO is miles ahead of the (still very fantastic) Q lens. It's sharper already at F2, stopped down even more so and has a way better, more natural, rendering and OOF transition. It's also much smaller than the Q lens. It's Leicas M masterpiece hands down.

 

I only wish they would make a 28mm APO. 😞

[Al Brown]

15 hours ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

Is the Light Lens Lab 35 8-elements a good approximation for the KoB?

It is.
It is the virtually identical remake of 8-element Summicron 35 version I and the above mentioned is the version IV, but there are very strong parallels between these two lenses. Since all versions were designed by Mandler it is stating the obvious - LLL is by far the best bang for the buck as far as price is concerned. It is my only Chinese lens in my M universe.

[dkmoore]

On 9/16/2024 at 3:22 PM, TheEyesHaveIt said:

Is the Light Lens Lab 35 8-elements a good approximation for the KoB?

No

[acalmplace]

On 9/12/2024 at 10:00 AM, AdamMark said:

I love my Q3 however I’m now hooked on Leica and wish to buy a rangefinder. The M11.

I am at heart a 35mm F/L person.  A brilliant F/L for street, daily life and the odd landscape.

I am looking to buy the 35mm F2 M Asph APO lens which I anticipate keeping forever.  My 65th birthday present to myself

I would be grateful if anybody who has this lens can comment on its :-

• Sharpness in the mid frame, edges and corners wide open and at F5.6 , F8 and F11 ?
• How it compares to the Q3 lens ?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Adam

My 35 APO is very sharp, including corners at wide open. In that regard, to my eye, there were about two stops of sharpness difference with my FLE (so FLE at f/4 gets close to APO at f/2; I had both for a short period).

Rendering is clean, little or no chromatic aberrations, great 'clarity' as others have mentioned, which produces great images.

So if you're looking for a cleaner and transparent look, this lens should meet your expectations. If you prefer lenses with character, then look elsewhere (or get an additional lens).

Can't answer for Q3.

[ultraman982]

On 9/16/2024 at 7:03 AM, Almizilero said:

And another round, This time APO first, then KoB:

 

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Really appreciate this comparison as I am teetering back and forth between getting a KOB or an APO. This is exactly what I’ve been looking for!!

The close focus of the APO feels nifty, but from your example I am kind of leaning towards the KOB for that “glow”, which even seems present in the wider shot (the hair seems to bloom a bit more than the APO shot).

Feel free to post more examples to make my decision harder :)))

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by ultraman982

[Almizilero]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb ultraman982:

Really appreciate this comparison as I am teetering back and forth between getting a KOB or an APO. This is exactly what I’ve been looking for!!

The close focus of the APO feels nifty, but from your example I am kind of leaning towards the KOB for that “glow”, which even seems present in the wider shot (the hair seems to bloom a bit more than the APO shot).

Feel free to post more examples to make my decision harder :)))

 

My recommendation would be: If you already have a couple of lenses and "only" want a 35, the KoB is great. Exactly for the reasons you gave. It's not a glow monster like the Steel Rim but there is a tiny bit of it, just enough to make it interesting. Also, it has a very nice subject separation at certain distances.
I on the other hand was looking for a kind of one lens does all solution, so the APO will replace my Tri-Elmar MATE for travel, the KoB as my everyday carry and a 50 Summicron as well. That why I, with a bleeding heart, sold the KoB. I keep some vintage lenses, but so far, I run with a one lens per focal length policy.

So, to bring this back to the original topic, I feel the OP is looking for "the One lens", so the APO is a great option. 

I have a couple more comparison shots from these two lenses. Not portraits, but rather boring stuff from my neighborhood. If you're interested, I wouldn't mind sending you full size images or even the DNG files.

Would be pictures like this (1:KoB, 2:APO):

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Edited September 19, 2024 by Almizilero

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[ultraman982]

9 hours ago, Almizilero said:

My recommendation would be: If you already have a couple of lenses and "only" want a 35, the KoB is great. Exactly for the reasons you gave. It's not a glow monster like the Steel Rim but there is a tiny bit of it, just enough to make it interesting. Also, it has a very nice subject separation at certain distances.
I on the other hand was looking for a kind of one lens does all solution, so the APO will replace my Tri-Elmar MATE for travel, the KoB as my everyday carry and a 50 Summicron as well. That why I, with a bleeding heart, sold the KoB. I keep some vintage lenses, but so far, I run with a one lens per focal length policy.

So, to bring this back to the original topic, I feel the OP is looking for "the One lens", so the APO is a great option. 

I have a couple more comparison shots from these two lenses. Not portraits, but rather boring stuff from my neighborhood. If you're interested, I wouldn't mind sending you full size images or even the DNG files.

Would be pictures like this (1:KoB, 2:APO):

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Nice -- I really appreciate you posting more images. Seems like the biggest difference in the above is the bokeh and also the handling of the red in the center.

Appreciate the insight here. I'm currently shooting the 35mm ASPH V2, but the KOB is tempting from both it's rendering and also its portability. I recently acquired a 40mm Summicron-C to determine how the "vintage" feel applies to the types of things I shoot, so will continue to experiment before making a choice.

[patrickcolpron]

To follow up on @Almizilero exemple of the KOB vs the APO here are the two images I made with both the KOB and the APO 35 back in early 2022

First the KOB  image for the first of the two different photos I made to compare these lenses for myself, this was not to be shared, ever. Selfishly made just for me. First photo is of Anna. 

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Followed by the APO 35 M at the same location, same assistant, nothing scientific here. I just made a couple of photos for myself to see the different rendering at f/2 from both lenses. 

Second photo, a photo of Ava, where I tried to keep a similar composition, with a different assistant this time as my test subject, first the KOB

Followed by the APO 35 M, again both photos made wide open for some strange reason using a digital camera when... where the KOB shine is at f/4 ish to f/8, specially on film. 

Everyone I showed these photos to, 10 people (me included) preferred the photos made with the 35 Summicron V4 (KOB for short, or short for king of bokeh) for me and for 4 out of 9 other people it was because of the out of focus rendering which is more defined, the bokeh has more texture with the KOB whereas the APO is too smooth for most people, too clean, almost looking fake to them. 

I kept mentioning the photos and today I finally took the time to fish them out of my archives from a few years back, all photos made with an M10P. 

Where was I going with this? Oh yea, you don't need to break the bank to get a great lens with awesome rendering. I really really like both lenses for different reasons, and the KOB is a solid performer on the M10, M10-R and M11, it is not a perfect lens, the APO 35 is not perfect either. 

They both have pros and cons. Which is best, that is oh, so very personal. Between those two, the APO is my desert Island lens, but I'll have trouble ever parting with the KOB, they complement each other, offering slightly different flavours. 

Just looking at image #2, Ava's photo, I'll say the scale weights in the KOB's favour for that specific image, but again this is all very subjective. 

The KOB seems to have more POP to it, and as @Almizilero mentionned the KOB seems slightly wider than the APO, and tehse were made at about 70cm distance.

The lenses anyone decides to shoot with really depends on what they are after and their own personal preferences. 

Edited September 22, 2024 by patrickcolpron
Because because I post these on a whim quickly and ... well, I forget stuff and my schpiell check is deffective