Leica 35mm F2 ASPH M APO - Views and comments please

[AdamMark]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I love my Q3 however I’m now hooked on Leica and wish to buy a rangefinder. The M11.

I am at heart a 35mm F/L person.  A brilliant F/L for street, daily life and the odd landscape.

I am looking to buy the 35mm F2 M Asph APO lens which I anticipate keeping forever.  My 65th birthday present to myself

I would be grateful if anybody who has this lens can comment on its :-

• Sharpness in the mid frame, edges and corners wide open and at F5.6 , F8 and F11 ?
• How it compares to the Q3 lens ?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Adam

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[patrickcolpron]

I have this lens, I have no clue how it compares to the Q3 lens. I can't help you with this one.

I don't like the Q, any of the Q, and will never buy one until Leica makes one with a small manual focus 35 Summilux on it, then and only then will I look at one.

Sharpness in the mid frame, edges and corners wide open ... It's sharp but wide open sharpness in the corners, that doesn't make any sense to me, what the what.

Sharpness in the corners at f/5.6, f/8 and f/11... for street and daily life, in my opinion that's not critical. For the odd landscape photo, I think pretty much any 35 will do at f/8 or f/11. 

I mostly use my lenses from f/4 to f/5.6 on digital M cameras, at f/11 at times with an analog M camera for film on a bright sunny day with fast film stock.

The APO 35 is one of the sharpest lens I own, but at these aperture, a 35 FLE V1 or V2 are about just as good sharpness wise.

For me the big "plus-es" for the APO 35 M isn't the sharpness but in its contrasts, micro contrasts, colour rendition plus how it handles against the light, there is no equivalent. 

Now wide open, you need to be aware that it isn't the best 35 Summicron out there in terms of rendering.

I made two different photos, wide open, each with the APO 35 and a Summicron 35 V4, what some call the king of bokeh or KOB for short. 

I showed both images to 9 different people, my staff and my wife, without telling them anything other than asking them which version of each they preferred. They all picked the KOB photos. I also preferred the rendering in the out of focus area better with the KOB, that's makes 10 out of 10 for an older and smaller lens. 

The APO 35 is technically perfect, has great colour and micro contrasts rendition but... but technical perfection comes at a price, it lacks a little bit of soul. 

It is my desert Island lens, but not my most used 35 mil lens. Let's be honest here,I like it because it is expensive and few people seem to have it still to this day.

All of this to say, It is a great lens and you will surely love it, specially for portraits where it really shines paired with an M11. 

[pedaes]

52 minutes ago, AdamMark said:

the 35mm F2 M Asph APO lens

You seem to have two threads running - perhaps a kind Mod will merge for you.

[BWColor]

I’m confused.  A simple search turns up dozens of written and video reviews. What is it that you’re looking for that you can’t find by using a simple Internet search?  You also have the abilities to see many images on Flickr and other services.

Edited September 12, 2024 by BWColor
Typo

[Al Brown]

And forum search as well.

[patrickcolpron]

1 hour ago, BWColor said:

I’m confused.  A simple search turns up dozens of written and video reviews. What is it that you’re looking for that you can’t find by using a simple Internet search?  You also have the abilities to see many images on Flickr and other services.

On the one hand I agree, on the other it may discourage people from participating. I almost didn't even open the post because of the "read and comment" like ... seriously. 
 

Yet this is a topic which interest me because people are attracted to the APO 35 M for the wrong reasons. There are better lenses out there for most everything. 
 

I couldn't resist adding my 2 cents 

[londond]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

..

 

Edited September 12, 2024 by londond
duplicate post

[londond]

Hi Adam

There will be plenty more expert on lens characteristics (and forum etiquette) than me but fwiw…

I generally like what is described as “clinical”.  As well as the M 35 APO, I use the 50 and 75 APOs and the sharp 21 SEM (and also on SL the APO 50 SL). I’d defer to Patrick on the relative importance of microcontrast, but that is certainly a factor.  I guess overall I would summarise it as ‘clarity’ and in this the 35 APO seems to stand above all the others.  I haven’t done a detailed sharpness review of corners edges etc but can generally crop all around the frame if circumstances necessitate (e.g a snatched street shot). 

As an object, it’s  also thing of beauty (unlike the SL equivalent which I understand is optically even better).  Not a priority maybe, and I enjoy using all my M lenses, but the 35 seems such a great combination of form and function.

I also use a Q2M which produces some lovely pictures, but not the clarity wow factor I sometimes get with the 35 APO on the M11M - but maybe hard to compare given different sensors.

The only thing I can say with confidence is that it would make a fab 65th birthday present to yourself

Enjoy….

 

[BWColor]

I just went through this same justification process when I retired.  I wanted an M11 Monochrom and Hassleblad X2D system.  Posting here is part of the process, but let’s face it, you want the lens and will get it.. as you should.  Nobody in their right mind will criticize this lens outside of price.  Yes, other lenses do render differently and no, this lens doesn’t provide much in addition to what you get with the APO Lanthar, which is what I have, along with the Zeiss Distagon f/1.4 and Biogon c f/2.8.  There is a reason that I’m following this thread.  I want to justify such a purchase just to get the slightly smaller size and slightly closer focus compared to the Voigtlander.  The Biogon c in 35mm and 21mm are part of my interest in high contrast sharp small lenses.  So, damn you for posting.  I’ll do my best in trying to avoid the purchase of the APO Leica.  Per the Borg (Original Star Trek), “resistance is futile”.

Edited September 12, 2024 by BWColor
Spellcheck

[aficionados]

If you can live with 50mm focal length, do get the APO on that and save a few thousand dollars.

I like my APO and 35mm but I can’t justify the price. So I learned to live 50 APO and 35 summicron and summilux 

[Lee S]

On 9/12/2024 at 9:52 PM, BWColor said:

I just went through this same justification process when I retired.  I wanted an M11 Monochrom and Hassleblad X2D system.  Posting here is part of the process, but let’s face it, you want the lens and will get it.. as you should.  Nobody in their right mind will criticize this lens outside of price.  Yes, other lenses do render differently and no, this lens doesn’t provide much in addition to what you get with the APO Lanthar, which is what I have, along with the Zeiss Distagon f/1.4 and Biogon c f/2.8.  There is a reason that I’m following this thread.  I want to justify such a purchase just to get the slightly smaller size and slightly closer focus compared to the Voigtlander.  The Biogon c in 35mm and 21mm are part of my interest in high contrast sharp small lenses.  So, damn you for posting.  I’ll do my best in trying to avoid the purchase of the APO Leica.  Per the Borg (Original Star Trek), “resistance is futile”.

How do you find the 35mm C-Biogon compared to the APO Lanthar across most of the frame where it matters? 

[BWColor]

1 hour ago, Lee S said:

How do you find the 35mm C-Biogon compared to the APO Lanthar across most of the frame where it matters? 

I don’t know, but I will make a point of finding out.  I have three new ‘M’ lenses and many old.  I’ve only used my M11M since mid June.  I also purchased a new Hasselblad and three lenses, so lots to sort out. I spent three weeks in South Korea with the 35mm APO and Zeiss 21mm c Biogon and both were sharp/contrasty from center to edge.  I’ve tested the 35mm Distagon and it performs very close to the APO Lanthar, but with a bit more speed and size.  I’ve started to shoot with the 50mm APO Lanthar and it is stellar.  The new Voigtlander 75mm f/1.9 is ok, but not near my Leica 90MM APO Asph., but much smaller.  Perhaps, what you want for portraits.  So, I’ll give the small 35mm a try.  It was my favorite 35mm when it came out.  It is also incredibly small.  If it comes close to the APO, I just might prefer the small Biogon for international travel.

[hansvons]

On 9/12/2024 at 4:21 PM, patrickcolpron said:

For me the big "plus-es" for the APO 35 M isn't the sharpness but in its contrasts, micro contrasts, colour rendition plus how it handles against the light, there is no equivalent. 

Now wide open, you need to be aware that it isn't the best 35 Summicron out there in terms of rendering.

Great assessment. That pretty much sums up why one might want to look into the 35mm APO M. 
 

For corner sharpness at f/2.8 and flare resistance alone (plus good micro-contrast and centre sharpness) that you may want for landscapes and cityscapes, the 35mm Summarit M (both f/2.4 and 2.5) is a sleeper. In a way, it’s the poor man’s APO. Plus it’s as small and light as an ASPH design can get in the 35mm focal length. It’s also a superb street photography lens for sharp, high-acutance B&W shots. But it’s not the lens for moody colour pictures (neither is the APO).

On 9/12/2024 at 4:00 PM, AdamMark said:

I love my Q3 however I’m now hooked on Leica and wish to buy a rangefinder. The M11.

I am at heart a 35mm F/L person.  A brilliant F/L for street, daily life and the odd landscape.

I am looking to buy the 35mm F2 M Asph APO lens which I anticipate keeping forever.  My 65th birthday present to myself

Do it. Life is short. The M11 is the right camera for this lens. But keep some money for a V4 Summicron or the Steel Rim reissue if you want the full glow experience (the latter can be the Nokton f/1.4 SC V2 as well, the first cries for a reissue).

[hansvons]

On 9/12/2024 at 10:52 PM, BWColor said:

I just went through this same justification process when I retired.  I wanted an M11 Monochrom and Hassleblad X2D system.  Posting here is part of the process, but let’s face it, you want the lens and will get it.. as you should.

Agree with the process and posting.

Regarding cleaning the shelf when the process is in safe waters (it will never end, though), I cannot recommend the 35mm Summicron ASPH enough. It gets overlooked and bashed for being neither fowl nor fish, clinical etc. It’s not. It’s as Leica as it possibly gets with lots of the virtues the V4 provides, but with no smeary corners at f/2.0. It flares as nicely, and shares a similar curvature at full aperture but with sharper corners. The rendering is subtle and gentle with high micro-contrast at f/2.8. It renders neutral colours with a bias towards warmth when compared to older Leica glass and Voigtländer/Zeiss. 

It’s basically the 35mm to rule them all, all things considered. 

[otto.f]

Look at this one. My current KOB cannot beat the APO in this kind of IQ. But the KOB may vary in different copies. Which is not to say that I do not like the KOB. I bought one back because I missed it, especially for the neutral colors; the APO is a bit yellower. On my M10-R that is. And I agree with  londond about its most discriminating feature compared to other 35’s: clarity. I also find it the least clinical lens Karbe ever designed.
 

 

Edited September 15, 2024 by otto.f

[patrickcolpron]

39 minutes ago, otto.f said:

Penang, M10-R with APO 35mm. .

This photo, in my opinion, is where a KOB would have had better rendering in the out of focus area versus an APO 35 M.

The KOB can't beat the APO in IQ but for me it sure does in rendering and I think rendering is more important than overall image quality, one is technical and the other is more of a "provided" feeling a photo gives you.  

This is why I say technical perfection comes at a price, it lacks soul. Which soul, the KOB has in drove up to f/5.6 yet I know and realize this is very, very subjective and dependant on people's own personal taste and preferences.  

Try the same subjective test, take a couple of portraits of people at close to minimum focusing distance, let's say 70cm with both the KOB and the APO one at f/2 and one at f/4 to compare the rendering of both lenses, you might be surprised by the results (I was) 

The APO is my desert Island lens for it's colour rendering and micro contrasts, and overall versatility but I think the KOB is a better everyday lens for me.  

Edited September 15, 2024 by patrickcolpron
Added test and everyday/desert Island lens. The stuff that comes to mind once you step away from a post...

[Eoin]

Moving from the Q3 to a M11 is quite a step change, 35APO as a first lens … done and dusted. Fantastic combination by all accounts, truly a very nice 65th present to yourself, enjoy.

I’ve used rangefinders both to learn photography early on in my life and solidly for the past 20 years. I have a Q2 for times I just want to grab shots without complication, completely different experience, yet familiar.
I faced the 35APO upgrade question some weeks ago and decided my Summilux FLE v1 did everything I wanted. But I diverted even less funds into a mint SL2 & SL APO 35.
Now that’s a Q on steroids. At heart though, I enjoy photography more with an M and with lenses I’ve collected. 

[otto.f]

10 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

This photo, in my opinion, is where a KOB would have had better rendering in the out of focus area versus an APO 35 M.

The KOB can't beat the APO in IQ but for me it sure does in rendering and I think rendering is more important than overall image quality, one is technical and the other is more of a "provided" feeling a photo gives you.  

This is why I say technical perfection comes at a price, it lacks soul. Which soul, the KOB has in drove up to f/5.6 yet I know and realize this is very, very subjective and dependant on people's own personal taste and preferences.  

Try the same subjective test, take a couple of portraits of people at close to minimum focusing distance, let's say 70cm with both the KOB and the APO one at f/2 and one at f/4 to compare the rendering of both lenses, you might be surprised by the results (I was) 

The APO is my desert Island lens for it's colour rendering and micro contrasts, and overall versatility but I think the KOB is a better everyday lens for me.  

I agree that it’s a close call but it sort of can’t be a call at all either. Not because it’s subjective which is always the conversation stopper, but these lenses get their points from different aspects. For me a big reason to buy the APO was also that it has a broader scope, it performs very well as a macro lense which is rather unique for a 35mm and makes it ideal for travelling with the ‘one body one lense’ principle. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

This, for instance, was made on a walk through the jungle in Penang with the APO as the only lens on my shoulder. The butterfly was about 3m away from me. Cropping is so easy with this lens, in combination of course with the 40Mp of the M10-R.

 

[patrickcolpron]

1 minute ago, otto.f said:

 it performs very well as a macro lense which is rather unique for a 35mm and makes it ideal for travelling with the ‘one body one lense’ principle. 

Not sure I would call that a macro lens or even close to a macro lens, I think the 35 FLE coupled with Leica's Elpro Close-Up is better suited for that task because... 

... 30 cm close focus is slightly better than most DSLR and Mirrorless 35 mil lens, but nothing I'd call macro. It finally is kind of in the normal range of close focusing expectations these days. We are in the 21st century after all.

I find the close focusing capabilities on modern and newer M lenses to be kind of gimmicky to be honest, cool to have but seldom if ever use it with a range finder myself, but the market dictated it, it was needed to modernise the M line with the competition's offering.

The Canon RF 35mm f/1.8 Macro IS STM lens has true close focusing at 17cm, that's almost macro, just tested it on one of my Canon cameras (Oh the infamy I have Canon cameras and lenses!) same as with a 35 Lux FLE with the a Leica Elpro lens adapter on it. alas that means having and extra piece of kit with you which defeats the purpose, a one lens no fiddling with it, solution, but, but... 

If you want macro with a Leica lens, a 75 APO combined with both the ELPRO and a Leica Macro M adapter on it, now you are talking.

Anyhoo I digressed, the APO 35 is a great one lens solution, it would be my one lens solution had I not so many 35 to choose from at home.