MP Shutter Button Travel Length

[moosehd2]

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I just picked up a used MP (made in 2020) and since I'm only coming from an M10 and a Minolta CL & CLE, I don't have a good barometer for how long the shutter release travel should be.

Is it normal for the button to have to be pushed quite a bit to fire? I emailed YYE and he said that this is the case after the M6 on due to the meter. I stopped by Camera West here in California and their tech checked it out and said it was fine. I put a soft release on it and it's better. But just wanted to check a third time :-). It fires before being fully depressed/flush with the bottom of where it sits, but it seems to require an amount of squeeze I guess I'm not used to.

Thanks!

[spydrxx]

You've heard from two experts...that should answer the question.

[costa43]

I echo the above. YYE has seen so many Leica bodies. If he says it’s normal, then it’s highly likely that it’s fine. 

[250swb]

1 hour ago, moosehd2 said:

I just picked up a used MP (made in 2020) and since I'm only coming from an M10 and a Minolta CL & CLE, I don't have a good barometer for how long the shutter release travel should be.

Is it normal for the button to have to be pushed quite a bit to fire? I emailed YYE and he said that this is the case after the M6 on due to the meter. I stopped by Camera West here in California and their tech checked it out and said it was fine. I put a soft release on it and it's better. But just wanted to check a third time :-). It fires before being fully depressed/flush with the bottom of where it sits, but it seems to require an amount of squeeze I guess I'm not used to.

Thanks!

Have you read the manual?

The page varies with which version of the manual you download but the one you want is how to activate the meter and describes how the first pressure on the shutter release switches on the meter, the second pressure is to fire the shutter.

Edited August 5, 2024 by 250swb

[F456]

Moosehd2,  I think your question is a valid one even after reading the responses from YYE and Camera West as well as others' comments above.

I have used both meterless and also metered film Leica M in the shape of M6 classic and TTL and also much later three MPs I owned concurrently. So I have had plenty of chance over the years to get the hang of the differences.

My findings have been that, yes, you have to press the metered cameras' shutter releases further than the unmetered ones — and once used to the unmetered ones I found the delay on the newer models frustrating for a while. But I found also that, no, the MPs releases were not quite uniform in the point of travel from top down to trip between the three bodies. One MP did seem just a bit too late; the others were probably correct but unless my memory had played tricks the M6s were usually less extreme. However....

... this reminds me that in the past on my first M6 the travel started to get noticeably longer after a few years and in the end I landed up having to press the release right to the bottom of its travel and only when I let it go slightly back up did it fire! Which still got me the shot especially for scenics but is far from desirable.  That sort of thing plus not infrequent rangefinder calibration drift on almost all the bodies drove me to distraction but I am glad to end on a regained note of happiness: I found an excellent servicer and those Ms that I still have all now trip very nicely i.e. not too far down even on the metered ones. And that sort of thing makes it wonderful once again to be shooting them.

[moosehd2]

Thanks all. Fair points! YYE never saw the camera, FYI. And I know about the different pressures...but the meter trips at 15% pressure and then it's another 85% of travel before it trips the shutter. I've pushed a lot of buttons in 20 years of being on set/professionally shooting. Albeit, I've only pushed two MP's and 1 M5 for Leica bodies since I only shoot rangefinders for fun.

F456: And thanks! I tried an MP before this one and I wish I still had it to compare...because it seemed like I remember it tripped sooner. I was wondering if I should return this one and try another body...or if I was just being crazy.

Video attached of the shutter release. It's pretty much flush before it fires.

[moosehd2]

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1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

Your only real option for the fourth check is trying three other random MP Leicas. Go around and find them in the stores or check the classifieds and compare their shutter releases to yours. Let us know your findings.
 

Haha. Yes, true. I might do that just to give me 200% satisfaction that I'm being unreasonable. It really is fine with a soft release button...but since I'm still in the return window of the camera, I wanted to do my due diligence and make sure I was paying for a perfect one.

[Mute-on]

I only have one MP (from early production) together with M2 and M4. The final shutter release point on all three might vary, but not enough to really notice the differences. What is common is that the shutter only releases when the button is very nearly at the end of its stroke, that is nearly flush with the shutter surround.

I did try a soft release, but found it made the shutter release too ‘trigger happy’ for my liking. I vastly prefer the control at the end of my finger tip as it contacts the shutter surround to tell me when the shutter will ‘just’ trip.

Lastly, a late shutter release is not a defect, and is no reason to return a camera that is otherwise operating well. The release depth on a film M is adjustable. I would investigate that before seeking a return. 

[moosehd2]

1 minute ago, Mute-on said:

I only have one MP (from early production) together with M2 and M4. The final shutter release point on all three might vary, but not enough to really notice the differences. What is common is that the shutter only releases when the button is very nearly at the end of its stroke, that is nearly flush with the shutter surround.

I did try a soft release, but found it made the shutter release too ‘trigger happy’ for my liking. I vastly prefer the control at the end of my finger tip as it contacts the shutter surround to tell me when the shutter will ‘just’ trip.

Lastly, a late shutter release is not a defect, and is no reason to return a camera that is otherwise operating well. The release depth on a film M is adjustable. I would investigate that before seeking a return. 

Good to know, thank you! That's how my MP is: trips when it's nearly flush with the shutter surround. So perhaps it is normal, then!

[250swb]

9 hours ago, moosehd2 said:

Thanks all. Fair points! YYE never saw the camera, FYI. And I know about the different pressures...but the meter trips at 15% pressure and then it's another 85% of travel before it trips the shutter. 

Imagine what it would be like if the meter came on at 15% pressure and shutter fired at 30% pressure, metering would become a nightmare so I don't really know what you are worried about. The shutter release depth is-what-it-is, the depth is set not just by the mechanism but also by a switch set in a fixed position. Leica's without a meter may offer a different feel but that doesn't mean all Leica's with a meter are faulty. I know there are a number of fair weather shooters around who only use there Leica's in the summertime, but the MP is still a professional camera and if it's being used in the winter with gloves on (and even for people with cold fingers) there has to be good amount of distinction in travel between simply switching the meter on and then firing the shutter. This is a distinction in travel you'll find useful if you use a soft release to make the shutter button even vaguer in operation. But when your finger tip has reached the release point it will fire the shutter just as fast as any other Leica M, so don't pump the button up and down switching the meter On then Off again, keep pressure on it just shy of the release point and you are ready to go.

[F456]

250swb, that's a good point — I'm mostly one of those fair weather shooter though in all seasons. I use a NIkonos-V for anything rough / wet.

Also just to say I like your woodland pictures from your link very much — one of my favourite environments.

 

[moosehd2]

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

Imagine what it would be like if the meter came on at 15% pressure and shutter fired at 30% pressure, metering would become a nightmare so I don't really know what you are worried about.

I mean, every Canon 1 series like my 1N from the 90s on forward does that. The later Mamiya 645 AF/DF (and their digital versions/by Phase One, etc.), the Hasselblad H series, modern Canon/Nikon, etc. all do this. I think those cameras all use electronics to fire the shutter. That might be the difference in getting away with certain tolerances, though.😀. 

But I agree, nice woodland photos!

And either way, I'll have access to another MP tomorrow and will be able to put my thoughts to rest 😆

[69xchange]

My olympus XA fires with 5% pressure on the shutter button. I think I prefer the 85% pressure to fire the shutter instead. As what someone above said, it'll be a nightmare if the difference in pressure for metering and shutter fire is too narrow. It'll be a lot of wasted shots just like my olympux XA.

[plaidshirts]

On 8/5/2024 at 2:00 PM, moosehd2 said:

Thanks all. Fair points! YYE never saw the camera, FYI. And I know about the different pressures...but the meter trips at 15% pressure and then it's another 85% of travel before it trips the shutter. I've pushed a lot of buttons in 20 years of being on set/professionally shooting. Albeit, I've only pushed two MP's and 1 M5 for Leica bodies since I only shoot rangefinders for fun.

F456: And thanks! I tried an MP before this one and I wish I still had it to compare...because it seemed like I remember it tripped sooner. I was wondering if I should return this one and try another body...or if I was just being crazy.

Video attached of the shutter release. It's pretty much flush before it fires.

I’d say it’s within normal range. The release on my MP travels much farther than any other M body I’ve owned over the years.
Noticeably so. 
It bothered me at first but I’ve gotten used to it now. 

[250swb]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:25 PM, 69xchange said:

My olympus XA fires with 5% pressure on the shutter button. I think I prefer the 85% pressure to fire the shutter instead. As what someone above said, it'll be a nightmare if the difference in pressure for metering and shutter fire is too narrow. It'll be a lot of wasted shots just like my olympux XA.

Likewise with my Olympus XA, in this context an example of 'be careful what you wish for'.

[moosehd2]

I just tried out 2 other MP's and yup, their shutter buttons are much nicer, crisper/firmer, release sooner, etc. They even trigger the meter on sooner than the one giving me issues. Mine's all squishy and requires just enough extra pressure that it starts making me shake the camera. I even mixed them up and fired them blindly to see. So anyway, something's up with it.

In case anyone comes across the same thing in the future, hopefully this thread helps.

Thanks everyone for chiming in!

[Mute-on]

Sounds like you should just get it adjusted to shift the trigger point slightly sooner. Then you can ditch the unnecessary soft release.

At least you been able to confirm your impressions and have a solution! Enjoy the wonderful MP. Love mine. 

[moosehd2]

9 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

Sounds like you should just get it adjusted to shift the trigger point slightly sooner. Then you can ditch the unnecessary soft release.

At least you been able to confirm your impressions and have a solution! Enjoy the wonderful MP. Love mine. 

Thanks! Have you ever had one adjusted? I asked YYE and he said he could take a look at it...but it didn't sound very confident that he certainly could. And since the camera's still in the return window, I sort of just want to send it back and shop around for another.

[Mute-on]

4 minutes ago, moosehd2 said:

Thanks! Have you ever had one adjusted? I asked YYE and he said he could take a look at it...but it didn't sound very confident that he certainly could. And since the camera's still in the return window, I sort of just want to send it back and shop around for another.

No I haven’t had it adjusted. I’ve only reviewed an M2 repair manual that shows how it could be done.

If you have the opportunity to return or exchange for another example without the late release, do it. In the end, the hassle of getting it functioning to your liking, even if achievable, might not be worth the aggravation. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[plaidshirts]

On 8/8/2024 at 7:40 PM, moosehd2 said:

I just tried out 2 other MP's and yup, their shutter buttons are much nicer, crisper/firmer, release sooner, etc. They even trigger the meter on sooner than the one giving me issues. Mine's all squishy and requires just enough extra pressure that it starts making me shake the camera. I even mixed them up and fired them blindly to see. So anyway, something's up with it.

In case anyone comes across the same thing in the future, hopefully this thread helps.

Thanks everyone for chiming in!

 

On 8/8/2024 at 8:17 PM, moosehd2 said:

Thanks! Have you ever had one adjusted? I asked YYE and he said he could take a look at it...but it didn't sound very confident that he certainly could. And since the camera's still in the return window, I sort of just want to send it back and shop around for another.

If you have to press down to the point of shaking the camera, you should definitely return it if possible.