Anyone still buying into/investing in the S system at this point?

[John McMaster]

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1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

wooden tripod I use for 8x10

Indeed, for any lens over 180mm (Mamiya 300/2.8 and modified Leica R APO-Modular) it is a large Zone VI wooden tripod with Wimberley head.  Usual tripod is a Gitzo 3 with cube, that head wobbles with too much overhang leveraging it...

john

[irenedp]

2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I don't recall exactly, but I am pretty sure I saw evidence of minor shake even using my studio stand (which is at least 50kg). But in my experience the most stable platform I have is a Ries wooden tripod I use for 8x10. I have taken to using that for when I need a truly vibration deadening platform and it makes a big difference. It is a huge pain to use, however, as it is so heavy and awkward compared to my RRS TVC33. I use that with a Arca Swiss cube and it is stable enough for most purposes, but for really long telephotos, macro or speeds around 1/15th, the Ries makes a difference. The platform head itself also being better than using the cube, for example. Unfortunately the larger the mating surface between the head and the lower profile it is, the less shake (because of the inherent torsion in materials like aluminum and whatever the composite shell is in the camera. I guess the astrophotographers are probably the best people to listen to for anything like this...I figured it out because when I started 8x10 I had a hard time getting sharp pictures, despite almost 20 years with 4x5. I asked at the large format photography forum and everyone was like "do you have a wood tripod?" and I was like "no, I have this very robust RRS one with a BH55 (at the time)", and they suggested that the tripod was the problem. I took their advice and they were right. Even a fancy state of the art carbon fiber tripod has nothing on a heavy wooden tripod with a good platform and a large plate surface.

I tried to buy a Ries tripod, but they never delivered -nor responded to repeated requests about it-. Thankfully, I had paid with an AMEX card, and after three months, I got a refund. That was last summer.

[shedboatshed]

I struggle with mirror slap/camera shake quite a bit when shooting the 120mm on a tripod at slower shutter speeds, like 1/5-1/30th. Not slow enough to even it out, but not fast enough to stop the shake. On my S007, mirror up mode doesn't work with 2 second delay which makes it more frustrating. Are most people using intervalometers? 

[Einst_Stein]

On 1/10/2025 at 4:41 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

The black area is velvet from a shooting background. It is completely featureless.  The banding is visible in other areas too. I am not sure it is “noise”, but it is a clear pattern in the noise that appears when there is a very low signal to noise ratio. I am not sure about the magenta. I can’t remember if I covered the VF. Probably not, but even if I did, it is not a practical solution for normal daylight work. For long exposures, sure. Agree that if it needs this, would be nice to have the R9’s little shutter. That was quite ingenious. 

Since that banding in the dark area around the “EPSON” show on the pictures of both cameras, and appear at consistent location, I can comfortably rule out the noise or mirror or shaking.  It must be something in the original object or the post processing. 

As far as the mirror shaking, it is a common problem for any camera with flipping mirror. You need to deal it properly, by all means. If nothing satisfactory, mirrorless will be your solution. 

 

 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

1 hour ago, irenedp said:

I tried to buy a Ries tripod, but they never delivered -nor responded to repeated requests about it-. Thankfully, I had paid with an AMEX card, and after three months, I got a refund. That was last summer.

I had a couple of issues and the person was not what I would consider receptive to it, though they were responsive ahead of time. Did you call them? In any case, if I were to get a new wooden tripod, I would probably look at the Linhof one, despite the high cost. The Ries is very stable for me, but I find the knobs very uncomfortable (they are machined aluminum and sharp), and I think I might go in for a different design.

[Stuart Richardson]

4 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Since that banding in the dark area around the “EPSON” show on the pictures of both cameras, and appear at consistent location, I can comfortably rule out the noise or mirror or shaking.  It must be something in the original object or the post processing. 

As far as the mirror shaking, it is a common problem for any camera with flipping mirror. You need to deal it properly, by all means. If nothing satisfactory, mirrorless will be your solution. 

 

 

 

I am not quite sure what you are referring to, but I can assure you the banding is from the sensor noise. Here is the ISO 100 version of the same scene. I am including the full version of the ISO 50000 of the S3. You can also see the banding in the pictures above the printer.

 

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[Einst_Stein]

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To make sure we are talking about the same thing, these are the banding I see. 
 

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Edited January 12 by Einst_Stein

[Stuart Richardson]

No, that’s not what I am referring to. I am talking about the patterned streaks in the dark areas. Such as above the rocks in the velvet or in the pants of the man in the picture on the wall. 

[davidmknoble]

@Stuart Richardson I have a view camera wooden tripod to try, but yes, by golly it is heavy! I think it is roughly 15-20 pounds? I am anxious to try it, and anxious about trying it!  @irenedp, the problem I have with much of my work when using mirror up and self timer is that I cannot choose when to click the shutter.  I take images on the coast of the ocean, and picking the right moment to press the shutter, especiallying with medium shutter speeds between 1/4 second and 3 seconds.  I have the mountaineering tripod, but I only use it with film or digital M's and very small lenses. The long spikes (3 inch) on the feet also help secure it in the sand (and dirt or rocks).

[Pieter12]

2 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

@Stuart Richardson I have a view camera wooden tripod to try, but yes, by golly it is heavy! I think it is roughly 15-20 pounds? I am anxious to try it, and anxious about trying it!  @irenedp, the problem I have with much of my work when using mirror up and self timer is that I cannot choose when to click the shutter.  I take images on the coast of the ocean, and picking the right moment to press the shutter, especiallying with medium shutter speeds between 1/4 second and 3 seconds.  I have the mountaineering tripod, but I only use it with film or digital M's and very small lenses. The long spikes (3 inch) on the feet also help secure it in the sand (and dirt or rocks).

Treat it like shooting with a view camera. Frame and focus the shot, lock up the mirror and wait for the right moment. The added benefit is you can tell right away if you got it, or need to try again.

[John McMaster]

5 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

have with much of my work when using mirror up and self timer

You know you can lock the mirror up without using self timer?

john

[BernardC]

20 hours ago, irenedp said:

I tried to buy a Ries tripod, but they never delivered -nor responded to repeated requests about it-. Thankfully, I had paid with an AMEX card, and after three months, I got a refund. That was last summer.

Berlebach also makes high-quality wooden tripods. Their distribution is very sparse in North America, but you can order directly from them in the EU.

[irenedp]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

Berlebach also makes high-quality wooden tripods. Their distribution is very sparse in North America, but you can order directly from them in the EU.

will look it up, thank you 🙂. 

[davidmknoble]

16 hours ago, John McMaster said:

You know you can lock the mirror up without using self timer?

john

Yes, but then I cannot look through the EVF waiting for the right moment.   It’s good for non-moving landscapes, but not fluid ones like the ocean.

And regardless, nothing beats a sturdy tripod!

[davidmknoble]

I just looked and I have a Zone VI wooden tripod with a Bogen 3047 head.  I have not had time to pull it out and use it yet, but I will late this spring.  I only paid $225 for it with a canvas case.

[Stuart Richardson]

It is a bit of a pain, but putting it directly on the tripod makes it ultra stable. The lower the profile and the greater the connecting surface, the more stable it is. But obviously not ideal for anything other than very still compositions.

[John McMaster]

17 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I have a Zone VI wooden tripod

They made two models, the heavier one looks like a surveyors tripod...

john

[Einst_Stein]

On 1/13/2025 at 6:03 AM, BernardC said:

Berlebach also makes high-quality wooden tripods. Their distribution is very sparse in North America, but you can order directly from them in the EU.

I have a  Berlebach wooden tripod. The tripod itself feels like a masterpiece. I love it but rarely take it walk with me. I use it only with GX680 if a I can carry it 8n my car and shoot by my car..

It is sturdy, but I suspect it is due to its weight. I don’t think wood is the magic.

 

 

Edited January 15 by Einst_Stein

[davidmknoble]

@Stuart Richardson and @John McMaster thanks for the info.  My plan is to try it some with the S, but also throw the old Hasselblad 500ci on it with film.  I tend to like the 1/4 second to 1 second exposure times and it seems like this would be solid as a rock for longer exposures. 

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[Winedemonium]

Back to the OP's question for me a moment - I just did. 

Normally when I buy a "new" camera I rush into the lenses a bit, but this time I simply bought a fairly well-used (but recently factory refurbished) S typ 007, and the 70mm Summarit. They are due to arrive in a few days. I bought the camera for two reasons really - 1. to see what the typ 007 files are like; 2. with the camera's lightest (native lens) set up, whether I can be bothered with the bulk and weight at all.

I'm being cautious partly because this is my second time around with this system. Back in 2015, when the S typ 007 was released, you may recall the runout on the Typ 006 in the form of the anthracite-topped S-E. I bought that camera brand new, and used it mainly with the 70mm Summarit - photos of my family mainly, and some travel photography. I loved the form factor - much like the R8 and R9 before it, making the bulk actually a pleasure to hold, the overall design, the weather sealing, that beautiful big viewfinder, and the sound of the shutter. (Perhaps these are shallow things to appreciate, but this system isn't a work tool for me, so pleasure in use is important to me). Recently I was going back through some photos from 2015 and 2016 and my eyes took a double take at some of those taken on the S-E. 

I sold that camera - and a few lenses bought new (but discounted), as increasingly the system didn't feel like me - not the files, but usage. It seemed to shine for those working with strobes in fashion, architecture, landscape, etc. Also, the focus motor issues had started to be discussed, but the solution had yet to be offered. So, I sold it all. In less controlled situations the headroom limitation of that beautiful CCD sensors ISO narrowed the shooting envelope when (at least in my hands) the camera required at least moderate shutter speeds (faster than my M240 at the time anyway). 

The used prices today are such that I was tempted to retry, this time with the higher ISO-capable Typ 007, and because, in certain scenarios live view is useful.

If I enjoy this initial one lens set up, I may buy some of the other S lenses, and later on, may consider the S3. At the moment, the difference between the S typ 007 and the S3 (I did listen to David Frakas' commentary on the upgrade features) seems a little narrow (for me) for the price difference. 

Having been on this forum many years I know what a resource it is, so I will be reading back through some of the S threads for useful info and experiences.