Leica S3 (007) Tether Cables Required

[Pieter12]

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4 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

S006 battery is 7.4v while s007/s3 is 7.3v. I assume dual charger was originally for s006, so it would try to charge to 7.4 v unless you stop it at 80% or so.

if you use dual charger for s006 charger on s007 battery without disconnect it to avoid 100%, you might burn the charger. 

For similar reason, I suspect using s006 battery on s007 or S3, it might burn the camera. 
On the other hand, if you use s007 battery on s006, it might cause exposure or color difference. Many not be as bad as error, but some difference. 

According to the Leica US website, the BP-PRO 1 battery will work with all the S cameras (S2, 006, 007, S3). The dual-charger works with all the batteries, too. The quick-charger is different.

[Einst_Stein]

1 minute ago, Pieter12 said:

According to the Leica US website, the BP-PRO 1 battery will work with all the S cameras (S2, 006, 007, S3). The dual-charger works with all the batteries, too. The quick-charger is different.

I am thinking from the physics. That 0.1v will make difference, more or less. The best scenario is there is a voltage regulator that compensate the voltage difference, but I doubt it, otherwise there won’t be any problem across the batteries and cameras. 

I can see 7.3v battery works on 7.4v system, any electronics have some power rating margin. There will be some degradation, just don’t knowing which way. 7.4v battery works on 7.3v system is more problematic. At least the reliability. 
 

[Pieter12]

2 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

I am thinking from the physics. That 0.1v will make difference, more or less. The best scenario is there is a voltage regulator that compensate the voltage difference, but I doubt it, otherwise there won’t be any problem across the batteries and cameras. 

I can see 7.3v battery works on 7.4v system, any electronics have some power rating margin. There will be some degradation, just don’t knowing which way. 7.4v battery works on 7.3v system is more problematic. At least the reliability. 
 

Leica doesn't think so and even states the 007/S3 batteries are fine for the earlier cameras.

[Einst_Stein]

32 minutes ago, Pieter12 said:

Leica doesn't think so and even states the 007/S3 batteries are fine for the earlier cameras.

If Leica is always completely right, there won't be so many reliability issues in the past few years.

I will take it with my own judge.   

[Pieter12]

15 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

If Leica is always completely right, there won't be so many reliability issues in the past few years.

I will take it with my own judge.   

Leica could just as well stated the batteries should not be used in different cameras. As a matter of fact, they say not to use the older batter in the newer cameras. But if a problem arises caused by the newer type of battery, Leica would be liable for any repair.

Edited August 2, 2024 by Pieter12

[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, Pieter12 said:

Leica could just as well stated the batteries should not be used in different cameras. As a matter of fact, they say not to use the older batter in the newer cameras. But if a problem arises caused by the newer type of battery, Leica would be liable for any repair.

I appreciate your faith to Leica. I did my best to express my thought. 

[Pieter12]

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40 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

I appreciate your faith to Leica. I did my best to express my thought. 

It is not my faith in Leica. They have screwed up plenty of times. But I doubt they would go out on a limb about something you seem to think is obvious.

[Einst_Stein]

6 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

It is not my faith in Leica. They have screwed up plenty of times. But I doubt they would go out on a limb about something you seem to think is obvious.

Use common sense, add some physics knowledge. 

Edited August 2, 2024 by Einst_Stein

[davidmknoble]

It’s electronics and we don’t know that Leica didn’t put something in the S007 or other bodies to detect the battery voltage and adjust as needed, or that there isn’t a tolerance built it.

The SL3 takes the new higher voltage battery and tells you if you insert the older battery some functions may not be available.

The dual charger works on all of them, it has circuitry to talk to the battery and charge it to 100% regardless of the voltage difference.

[BernardC]

9 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

If Leica is always completely right, there won't be so many reliability issues in the past few years.

I will take it with my own judge. 

The S-007 battery came out in 2015! Surely if there was a problem it would have cropped-up by now.

[Einst_Stein]

6 hours ago, BernardC said:

The S-007 battery came out in 2015! Surely if there was a problem it would have cropped-up by now.

S 007 and battery (7.3v) came out after Dual Charger (16011, output 7.4V).

The potential issues are:

1: Using 7.4v battery onb S007/S3: There would be reliabilioty issue, as Leica already warned. In fact, the camera would detect the battery and won't even work.

2: Using 7.3V battery on S006: There won't be reliability issue as it is should be within the practical power range after other considerations, usually +/- 5% or 10%.
    However, the reduced voltage would affect more or less the performance of something, maybe focus speed (minor or ignorable)?,  ADC accuracy (1.5%?), or something else.

3: Charging 7.3v battery on 7.4V charger (Leica 16011): Unless the charger has a battery detecter and responsive voltage regulator, which I strong doubt:

    The charger will try to charge the battery to 7.4V that the battery is not supposed to reach,  either the battery or the charger, or both, will get shorter life due to overcharge.  
    Only charge to 80% could reduce this risk. 

4: Charging 7.4V battery on 4.2V charger (Leica 16009): This is more interesting. It seems the charger is taking "non-conventional" charging path.
    Instead of charging through the output terminal , it actually through another terminal (in the middle).
    I can only guess it has a voltage regulator or voltage protecor that put the 7.4v/7.3v out of the problem. 

To me scenario3 is the most serious, and it seems a lot of Dual Charger (16011) owners have already suffered the consequence.  

[Pieter12]

The dual charger is described as being able to handle both batteries. The older quick-charger is only for the earlier batteries, so Leica does seem to be aware of the different charging scenarios. You are making assumptions on your knowledge and not of any experience with the actual charger or batteries. I don't know the you have examined the electronics or circuit diagrams of the dual charger.

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

The dual charger is described as being able to handle both batteries. The older quick-charger is only for the earlier batteries, so Leica does seem to be aware of the different charging scenarios. You are making assumptions on your knowledge and not of any experience with the actual charger or batteries. I don't know the you have examined the electronics or circuit diagrams of the dual charger.

If you still feel comfortable  charging 7.3V battery in the 7.4V dual charger, go ahead. 

[BernardC]

Has anyone taken a dual charger apart to trace the fault? There's nothing wrong with idle speculation, but if it's the usual cause (one over-stressed component that cost pennies) they can probably be fixed by anyone with a soldering gun.

[John McMaster]

And knowing what to do 😉

john

[davidmknoble]

I have been charging the S007 and S3 batteries on a dual charger since 2018 and never had a faulty S battery or a faulty dual charger (having 2 of them).  It is very common for charges like the dual charger to talk first with the battery and drip charge it the way the battery tells it to.  I also plug in the charger, wait for it to light up and then go out (turn on and boot up if you will) and then insert a battery one at a time, waiting for it to be recognized and start charging.

I realize I may not be as heavy a user as some here, but it has not reduced capacity or affected my batteries in any way.

I also don’t leave the charger out on a desk to get dust in it, I just throw it back in the box on a shelf until the next time, unless I’m shooting several days in a row, in which case its left out.

[davidmknoble]

On 8/2/2024 at 2:31 PM, Einst_Stein said:

3: Charging 7.3v battery on 7.4V charger (Leica 16011): Unless the charger has a battery detecter and responsive voltage regulator, which I strong doubt:

I’m not sure why you strongly doubt that.  The charger has to have some kind of voltage regulator because it comes with UK and US cords.  The UK and US have very different output voltages in their plugs!  Like an Apple charger, it has to be able to deal with the input, so why would it not also have an output?  Leica was smart enough to know by this time that batteries might change and why not have circuitry in the battery to tell the charger it is done and the charger stop.  This is why the charger takes just a moment to begin charging, it flashes the battery signal to check the battery out and determine what to do.

[Einst_Stein]

5 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I’m not sure why you strongly doubt that.  The charger has to have some kind of voltage regulator because it comes with UK and US cords.  The UK and US have very different output voltages in their plugs!  Like an Apple charger, it has to be able to deal with the input, so why would it not also have an output?  Leica was smart enough to know by this time that batteries might change and why not have circuitry in the battery to tell the charger it is done and the charger stop.  This is why the charger takes just a moment to begin charging, it flashes the battery signal to check the battery out and determine what to do.

You are talking about the regulator from AC source to DC output in the charger.  It won't change the DC output voltage. See charger's specs.  The voltage difference between the charger's DC output and the battery's voltage rating could cuse troubles, unless the charger has a battery type detector and adaptive voltage regulator.  
Another dimension is the voltage tolerance from the battery  to the camera's circuits. 

I am just giving my limited knowledge and warning. Take or not is your call.

[davidmknoble]

18 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

unless the charger has a battery type detector and adaptive voltage regulator.  
Another dimension is the voltage tolerance from the battery  to the camera's circuits.

But this is my question :  do you know for a fact that it does or does not have a battery type detector (or communicate with the battery to get the voltage requirement).  If Leica says it is compatible, which they do, why would you suggest it might not have that?  Just asking questions.

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[eastldn84]

Did anyone find a reliable source for Leica cables ? I found a company that’s manufacturing the lemo cables. I’ve seen a few Leica ambassadors posting on Instagram about them. Hopefully they are available soon in the UK