Datsch Posted July 11, 2024 Share #1 Posted July 11, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) For those of us considering the new M11-D either as an upgrade from another -D camera or for those of us taking the first plunge into screen-free Wesentliche, I made this little table of specs: -D Concept Cameras M60 M-D M10-D M11-D __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Body Thickness mm 42 42 38 39 Weight g 720 720 660 540 VF Magnification x0.68 x0.68 x0.73 x0.73 Dynamic Range at ISO200* 10.0 10.0 10.2 10.8 MP 24 24 24 60 Battery mAh 1800 1800 1100 1800 Baseplate Yes Yes Yes Strap Lugs Yes Yes Yes Integrated Thumb Rest Yes Visoflex Yes Yes Internal Memory Yes USB-C Yes Physical Controls: ISO Wheel on Rear Yes Yes Yes On Switch on Top Yes Yes Yes Single / Continuous Yes Self Timer Yes Exp Comp Yes Yes Yes Shutter cleaning Yes Yes Yes Yes Time setting Yes Yes Yes Yes ISO on thumbwheel Yes Fotos/WiFi: Yes Yes jpg Yes Yes Metering mode Yes Yes White balance Yes Yes C / S Yes Yes Self timer Yes Yes Lens coding Yes CAI Yes *Dynamic Range taken from https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 11, 2024 Posted July 11, 2024 Hi Datsch, Take a look here A Comparison of -D Concept Screen-Free Cameras: M11-D, M10-D, M-D, M60. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Datsch Posted July 12, 2024 Author Share #2 Posted July 12, 2024 BTW, I would like this thread to be free of "The F-Word" ... 🙃 So please let's focus on the features and benefits of these amazing cameras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsch Posted July 12, 2024 Author Share #3 Posted July 12, 2024 Oh, and here's a jpg of that table in case the one above goes wiggly on a small screen: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/398399-a-comparison-of-d-concept-screen-free-cameras-m11-d-m10-d-m-d-m60/?do=findComment&comment=5418361'>More sharing options...
Datsch Posted July 12, 2024 Author Share #4 Posted July 12, 2024 For me, the surprise was that DR in real use cases is not that different between them. Sure, the M11-D has its ISO64 party trick and that is useful taking snapshots of statues at f1.4 in a piazza in Florence, but I am often in dark English woods at trying to get large DoF at f16 so it's not much help for that ... Also, there is a trend of increasing features over time and that actually makes me want to go backwards instead and try an M60 ... I stopped in Leica Mayfair the other day to try an M11 and without having my M-D there to hand, it felt pretty similar, not super slim or featherweight or anything (mind you it had a 35 APO on board which is quite heavy in itself). So this 'M240 platform=massive and clunky' idea I sort of had in my head does not really hold true. Any of these -D cameras will give you a pleasurable and calm shooting experience, distraction-free and allowing you to focus on the scene ... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted July 12, 2024 Share #5 Posted July 12, 2024 Thanks for the "wiggle-free" version - I struggled with the first post when reading on an iPad as the columns went haywire... One point - I think there might an error (its in the Leica manual specs so its not your fault). I had the M-D before my M-Edition 60s (I don't like easily worn/damaged black paint - yeah shoot me as a Leica heretic now) and I didn't think it weighed any more than my M240-Ps ie I think it was 680g or thereabouts. I think the screen/ISO dial back is pretty much a wash against the regular M240. Maybe an M-D owner can weigh one but it felt the same in the hand to me whereas the M Edition 60 feels 'heftier'. Happy to be corrected... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsch Posted July 12, 2024 Author Share #6 Posted July 12, 2024 (edited) 6 hours ago, NigelG said: think it was 680g or thereabouts I just weighed my M-D in at 690g including battery so yes it seems less than the 720g quoted in the manual. Only 30g more than the M10-D's stated weight. Perhaps the 720g is the actual for the M60 (it is made of steel after all) and that got mistakenly copied and pasted into the M-D manual ... The M240 stated weight is 680g. Perhaps an M10-D owner wants to pop theirs on a scale? Also, the M240 is also depth 42mm so I think that measurement includes the viewfinder surround and so is independent of the presesence of a screen. However, the screen-free M-D definitely feels thinner in the hand than an M240 ... Edited July 12, 2024 by Datsch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted July 12, 2024 Share #7 Posted July 12, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) vor 8 Stunden schrieb Datsch: For me, the surprise was that DR in real use cases is not that different between them. Sure Sure, I just use my iPhone. I use a profile with Leica Looks. And it looks like Leica would look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 13, 2024 Share #8 Posted July 13, 2024 (edited) 12 hours ago, Datsch said: For me, the surprise was that DR in real use cases is not that different between them. Sure, the M11-D has its ISO64 party trick and that is useful taking snapshots of statues at f1.4 in a piazza in Florence, but I am often in dark English woods at trying to get large DoF at f16 so it's not much help for that ... Also, there is a trend of increasing features over time and that actually makes me want to go backwards instead and try an M60 ... I stopped in Leica Mayfair the other day to try an M11 and without having my M-D there to hand, it felt pretty similar, not super slim or featherweight or anything (mind you it had a 35 APO on board which is quite heavy in itself). So this 'M240 platform=massive and clunky' idea I sort of had in my head does not really hold true. Any of these -D cameras will give you a pleasurable and calm shooting experience, distraction-free and allowing you to focus on the scene ... A rehash of "M11 versus everything that came before it", which has been argued and discussed to death 😴 💤 🛌 Comparing DR at ISO 200 and criticizing others' photographic subjects and styles in an attempt to equalize the comparison, that reeks of 💩 to me. But hey, if it makes someone feel better about choosing an older model, then embrace it I guess. https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica M (Typ 262),Leica M10-P,Leica M10-R,Leica M11,Leica M9 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 13, 2024 by hdmesa Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/398399-a-comparison-of-d-concept-screen-free-cameras-m11-d-m10-d-m-d-m60/?do=findComment&comment=5419384'>More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 13, 2024 Share #9 Posted July 13, 2024 On 7/11/2024 at 12:17 PM, Datsch said: For those of us considering the new M11-D either as an upgrade from another -D camera or for those of us taking the first plunge into screen-free Wesentliche, I made this little table of specs: -D Concept Cameras M60 M-D M10-D M11-D __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Body Thickness mm 42 42 38 39 Weight g 720 720 660 540 VF Magnification x0.68 x0.68 x0.73 x0.73 Dynamic Range at ISO200* 10.0 10.0 10.2 10.8 MP 24 24 24 60 Battery mAh 1800 1800 1100 1800 Baseplate Yes Yes Yes Strap Lugs Yes Yes Yes Integrated Thumb Rest Yes Visoflex Yes Yes Internal Memory Yes USB-C Yes Physical Controls: ISO Wheel on Rear Yes Yes Yes On Switch on Top Yes Yes Yes Single / Continuous Yes Self Timer Yes Exp Comp Yes Yes Yes Shutter cleaning Yes Yes Yes Yes Time setting Yes Yes Yes Yes ISO on thumbwheel Yes Fotos/WiFi: Yes Yes jpg Yes Yes Metering mode Yes Yes White balance Yes Yes C / S Yes Yes Self timer Yes Yes Lens coding Yes CAI Yes *Dynamic Range taken from https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm And unlike your commentary that followed, I found this very helpful. Thanks for putting this together. But I would add DR comparison at each model's lowest ISO. It's only fair to show both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsch Posted July 13, 2024 Author Share #10 Posted July 13, 2024 9 hours ago, hdmesa said: Thanks for putting this together. But I would add DR comparison at each model's lowest ISO. You're welcome. I wanted a way to show the DR graph but I did not want to take much room in the table for it. So thank you for posting that. ISO200 was the first ISO shared by all cameras so made sense to me at the time! I can't edit the original post but here is a couple of new lines for the table: M60 M-D M10-D M11-D _____________________________________________________________ DR at Base ISO 10.0 10.0 10.5 11.8 DR at ISO1600 7.0 7.0 7.7 8.0 But as you say, DR is a point generic to all M10s and M11s so perhaps has no place in this comparison of -D cameras. It seems new to me as I've never looked that closely at the M11 yet as I've been waiting for the -D version ... The table is meant to be about the various approaches to a screen-free camera that have been taken over the years and hopefully giving some insights into which model is most appropriate for someone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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