adan Posted December 5, 2007 Share #21 Posted December 5, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've heard "oversized sensor" for the R(10 or whatever) from sources other than the web or the ones mentioned here, so I wouldn't dismiss that idea too quickly. I'm also getting rumbles that the format actually may be variable, as in the Digiluxes that do 16:9, 3:2 and 4:3 - with electronic LCD masking in the viewfinder as appropriate. But no word on what the "base" format of the sensor would be. I can envision a camera that will shoot oversized with new lenses in a 4:3 or 4:5 format, and shoot a cropped 3:2 (close to 24 x 36 area) format with legacy R lenses. I "suggested" to a Leica rep that 16:9 and 1:1 formats would be nice options, as well. 2nd tier: no doubt - sometime. I suspect Leica will get the "new" R system up and running and stably on the market first. I also suspect (currency vagaries aside) that the M9 will be closer to $7000 - but would love to be proved wrong! 3rd tier: Not really an M8-2 (IMHO). More like a CL-digital: very compact body that uses M-mount lenses on some kind of cropped sensor (1.33 or 1.5 or even 2x), shorter RF base length, lower VF magnification, and no viewfinder support for anything longer than 50mm (which would likely be the limit of the RFs capability anyway, a la Epson R-D1). Likely about half the M9 price. 4th tier: 2-3 PanaLeicas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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sdai Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share #22 Posted December 5, 2007 The Leica contract with Panasonic has a term ... but I have no idea when it's due for a renewal or whether it's to be renewed. There're many other subcontractors doing digicams in Japan, Taiwan, mainland China ... Leica could figure out the major spec. and aesthetics by themselves, leave the rest to folks who are best at it, sit back and wait for the cash flow coming into their bank in Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted December 5, 2007 Share #23 Posted December 5, 2007 I'll just add in a comment which I've just made elsewhere on the forum - that I'd love to see a minature (ideally pocket sized) lightweight high performance compact, preferably with interchangeable lenses Any time you change the lens you add dust on the sensor. Miniature does not go well along with image quality. If the miniature camera camera costs just less than the M8 or a decent DSLR there is no market for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted December 5, 2007 Share #24 Posted December 5, 2007 IA rebadged DP1? Sounds good - put a fast tiny 40/2 summicron on it. That would outsell the Sigma version with it's 28/4 by a wide margin even if it cost a lot more. The Sigma does not have a 28/4 build in but something with an equivalent FOV of a 28 mm lens in 35 mm format. This is important to keep it compact. It would not make much sense to develop a great normal lens with f/2 because it will be either crap or cost as much as the M version. And Leica would need to get a larger sensor for their compact cameras the Foveon sensor is so much larger than a Ricoh GR or any PanaLeica Digicompact sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted December 5, 2007 Share #25 Posted December 5, 2007 all of this is pure speculation....... .."it must be this" or "it has to be that " and there is no "market for this" Leica makes lenses, not computers....... digital camera bodies today are full of electronics and are much closer to a computer then a camera.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share #26 Posted December 5, 2007 Rich, are you serious? ... if Leica doesn't build a camera, then who will buy their lenses? Are you saying that Nikon or Canon will allow Leica to build lenses for F mount or EOS mount? then who will buy their lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted December 5, 2007 Share #27 Posted December 5, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, as long as we're all smoking the good stuff.....I'd love to see Leica do a MF rangefinder ala the Mamiya 6 and 7. Maybe a 1.3x crop. Ummm, actually why doesn't Mamiya do that themselves! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share #28 Posted December 6, 2007 Well, as long as we're all smoking the good stuff.....I'd love to see Leica do a MF rangefinder ala the Mamiya 6 and 7. Maybe a 1.3x crop. Ummm, actually why doesn't Mamiya do that themselves! A digital version of the 7 would be very expensive ... consider the sensor size alone, its price tag could easily beat the one of a Hasselblad and becomes the next topic in town. Guess what, they'll probably have to remove the back LCD to give its way to a heat radiator just to cool down the CCD. I bet at above ISO 100, it'll be extremely noisy. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted December 6, 2007 Share #29 Posted December 6, 2007 A digital version of the 7 would be very expensive ... consider the sensor size alone, its price tag could easily beat the one of a Hasselblad and becomes the next topic in town. Guess what, they'll probably have to remove the back LCD to give its way to a heat radiator just to cool down the CCD. I bet at above ISO 100, it'll be extremely noisy. LOL Oh all right then - I'll settle for a digital version of my Rollei 2.8 F then. They can stick a fan on the bottom! Yeah, of course what either of those cameras would cost may as well just keep shooting 120 film. Worked for me so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted December 6, 2007 Share #30 Posted December 6, 2007 Sdai I am serious , Leica should control design, materials, techincal specifications and assembly along ANY mechanical engineering involved in building the camera body. Leica should rely on partners for all electrical engineering and circurtry- Which is most of what a digital camera is. IMO: Camera bodies have moved to quickly into the digial world, expectations will become: smaller, cheaper,better, and a 2-3 year shelf life. Lenses on the other hand are built to last for generation(s). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted December 7, 2007 Share #31 Posted December 7, 2007 Leica should rely on partners for all electrical engineering and circurtry That’s what they used to do with the DMR and the M8, and it created all kinds of problems. I don’t think they should continue pursuing this path. What would anyone think of a camera vendor that said (in 2007!): “We know our way around glass and mechanics, but all this new-fangled stuff involving electricity and computers and sensors or whatever it’s called – let’s leave that to the Japanese”? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #32 Posted December 7, 2007 I actually doubt that Leica could find such a NICE partner who will work with them wholeheartly ... also, modern lenses work seamlessly with their hosting camera bodies through sophisticated electronic linkage and naturally include many extensions of camera functionalities. You can't invite an external vendor to work on the body while prohibiting their access to optics internals ... consequently, you're opening a Pandora's box and will end up with giving up everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted December 7, 2007 Share #33 Posted December 7, 2007 i don't know ..... but perhaps these people would be a good partner for Leica Camera, they seem to know a lot about digital photography and electronics.....i do understand they are different companies - but maybe they could partner better then Leica and Hassy did Stereo & Macroscope Systems - Leica Microsystems thoughts ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #34 Posted December 7, 2007 thoughts ? Rich, I also don't know. In my very humble opinion if Leica hasn't sold ELCAN, they can be in a lot better shape today. Look at what ELCAN can do right now. ELCAN | ELCAN Business Areas | Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted December 7, 2007 Share #35 Posted December 7, 2007 sdai: WOW,... That is this type of company Leica need to partner with, leaders like ELCAN teaming with leica camera can produce something extra ordinary. Panasonic is a good partner for the comapct cameras, however the M (digital) & R system cameras need a more robust industrial strength partner like ELCAN. The D system could have some influnce from both panasonic and ELCAN to insure it is a market leader within it's own market & price point. IMO, this required to address the heavy use of electronics in digital cameras bodies,from a mechanical engineering perspective leica is tops and the MP is proof. i actually can't imagine at this time what a partnership with Leica and ELCAN can produce .... it would be very exciting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chari2302 Posted December 7, 2007 Share #36 Posted December 7, 2007 If you had to suggest a successor for the Digilux 2 what camera could you promote ? Charles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #37 Posted December 7, 2007 I don't know, Charles ... if you're talking about a direct upgrade to the Digilux 2 instead of the Digilux 3, I have nothing on top of my head. Now, suppose you're in the market for a high quality camera with a budget between 1800 and 2500 US dollars, look at what you can get in the U.S. (based on B&H price): Nikon D80 + Nikon 17-55/2.8 DX $1981.90 Nikon D200 + Nikon 17-55/2.8 DX $2629.90 Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS $2228.95 The Digilux 2 has some advantage in terms of weight and size ... the Digilux 3 does not compare to the 3 combos above from any aspect (of course, with the loyal customer coupon, you can have it for 1800 US). If I were in Leica's shoes, I would never bother with this segment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted December 7, 2007 Share #38 Posted December 7, 2007 Some of the basic specs are no brainers. M9 and R10 will probably show up and the names will be right on. The M9 will not have a crop factor and the R10 may be a different format than 24x36mm2, but at least no crop factor as in the DMR. The pixel count can simply be calculated from current announcements by other manufacterers and will probably match the final specs. A rebadged Sigma DP1 may be called speculation or just BS - this the same as speculating Zeiss will rebadge the M8 for half the price. All the interesting data are pure speculation so there is no news in the post and we still have to wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #39 Posted December 7, 2007 All the interesting data are pure speculation so there is no news in the post and we still have to wait. Man, this thread wasn't intended as an announcement ... let's say, I'm bored and get some time to kill, alright? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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