Buy a used Leica S or wait for new Camera?

[lencap]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Greetings!

I own the SL2-S with the bundled 50mm f/2.0 ASPH Summicron lens.  I shoot  infrequently, but enjoy the Leica every time I use it. I’ve been thinking of getting a used S body Leica and portrait lens for high quality family.shots, mostly natural light.  Some staging is likely, but natural look is important.  

Before adding another kit to my bag, I wonder if a used S camera makes sense for occasional use, and whether older S bodies are reliable enough to own in today’s market?  Lots of rumors about Leica updating the medium format camera with an updated chip and adapted SL3 body for a reasonable price (at least in Leica terms).  
 

The medium format appeal is largely nostalgia. I miss my Hasselblad film cameras/lenses.   Considered the X1Dii, X1D, but haven’t been able to try one in person.

All thoughts are welcome.  Thank you in advance.

 

 

[Pieter12]

An S, be it 006 or S2, can be had for a reasonable price but you would need to make sure the sensor is corrosion-free. An S3 will cost you an arm and a leg no matter, plus the S lenses don't come cheap. Even used. But they are all spectacular performers, just make sure the AF motor has been updated or is a later model. All those cameras have optical viewfinders, something I at least am adamant about and seems to have gone the way of the Dodo. The S007 could be problematic as far as skin tones are concerned, not rendering as well as the S3 or the fabulous color of the CCD S cameras. Early S cameras are no longer supported by Leica, I don't know how much longer the 007 or S3 will be repairable.

Bottom line, if you are happy with the SL2-S, I would stick with it. The Leica MF camera experience is quite different than the old Hasselblads. If that is what you're after, get a Hasselblad with a digital back (not the X). Or pony up the really big bucks for a Phase One.

[LeicaR10]

Lencap,  Much of what Pieter12 wrote I would agree.  Right now the S007 in good condition is a true bargin.  Same with the S lenses with the AF motors replaced.  The S camera has a cinematic rendering and unique to the S camera and lenses.  You can also use the S lenses on your SL2-S with an S to L adapter.  I used all the S cameras and most of the S lenses for a decade plus with my business before I sold it and retired.  You will find S photographers having different views at to which model they like best.  IMO, the S007 and certainly the S3 with its perfected red channel are the best.  Others like the CCD sensors of the S2 and S006.  (Just be sure the camera CCD sensor was replaced with the Leica Wetzlar document that states this was done)  IMO, it gets down to taste.  With the S lenses these are optically superb and render unlike the SL and M lenses.  If you are looking for ideas for which S lens(es) would suit your needs, you might try the below two links.  If waiting for the S4, that is allegedly coming in 2025 with new lenses and who knows how the new mirrorless S4 camera and lenses will render or cost.  If you are looking for places to buy S camera gear at bargin prices, I suggest you check out the websites for:  Camera West, Leica Store San Francisco, Leica Store Miami and KEH, etc.. This should help you.  r/ Mark

PS.  The second link will take you to a site where you can look at the different Leica S lenses and how they render the scene.  You can find used S007 bodies for $3 to $4 K, just have to be patient and keep looking.  I would also only buy from from either a Leica dealer or authorized Leica boutique or dealer.  Make sure the S lens AF motor was replaced and the certificate of AF motor replacement accompanies the lens and serial number. 

Try:  https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/04/the-definitive-guide-to-leica-s-lenses/

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lenses?lens=Leica   You can also look at the S system image thread on the forum.

Note: I am in no way connected to these companies. https://camerawest.com/collections/pre-owned-leica-s  or https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/used-s-lenses

Edited April 21, 2024 by LeicaR10

[Einst_Stein]

Waiting for newer Leica release can be easily justified because for sure the newer release will have enough improvement. Whether the improvement suits you is a self fulfill issue. 
 

if you don’t need it immediately, then wait, or, on the other hand, if budget is not an issue, then get it ASAP. 

[Stuart Richardson]

10 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

Early S cameras are no longer supported by Leica, I don't know how much longer the 007 or S3 will be repairable.

I am not sure this is fully accurate, is it? Leica will still take in all S cameras for repair, they just don't have any more new sensors for the S2 and S006, so if there are sensor problems they will not be able to solve all of them. But they still repair the other aspects of the camera. Most of the parts are the same as the S3, which will be repairable for a while yet.

As for whether it is worth it? That is up to you. I don't think waiting is a good idea necessarily. Who knows when it will come and what it will be like, or even if it will come.

If you are looking for a vintage feel in digital, the S2 and S006 in particular will give you the feel of using a early 2000s SLR, like the R9 or F6, only without the film and with a screen on back.

[tom0511]

I second s007 as a bargain, and I WOULD NOT BE AFRAID THAT the S007 skin rendering would be a problem. I am comvinced it is certainly better than the sl2-s skin ( whicch is good as well).

the S006;has a certain color pop, but is limited to lower iso and a little slower.

alls S cameras have less accurate af than a SL2. Thats my experienca at least at medium and longer distances.

The other thing is the SL lenses and system have become very good as well.

and the gap is closer between mf and ff than it was 5 years ago.

 

 

[tom0511]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The x1d  have reliable af and a great sensor, but a slow startup and a longer viewfinder blackout.

 

 

[albireo_double]

Here is my perspective: Every five years or so, I have been producing a photo book documenting how my children have been growing up, our holidays etc (makes the best gift for the grandparents). I finished the latest book recently, including pictures taken with a number of different cameras, film and digital, and iPhones. As I was collecting the images, I kept noticing (again) how those shot on the S cameras (S2/S007/S3) always stood out and ranked as the best looking, along with medium format film. People use the words "cinematic" or "filmic" - it is not Tarkovsky's Stalker really but I would say that there is some of the "organic feel" of film in the images, combined with better resolution and dynamic range. There is less of that unrelenting modern digital look that is present in the SL images. Having said that, I think traveling with the S is a major commitment. It is not a camera to walk with casually, take to a dinner etc. - it is much more a "production scenario" machine, suitable for assignments where photography is the goal. So, for travel, skiing etc. I nowadays usually bring the SL or MM, because I feel that a holiday should be enjoyed and experiences should not be dictated by the presence of a monstrous camera in my backpack. Even for smaller-scale photo shoots with a model, when I have no assistant and have to schlep the cameras and lights myself, I usually grab the SL. And if I need some specific less digital look, there are always legacy M or R lenses that can be used on the SL via adapters. In conclusion, the SL (now SL3) is more and more often my "go to" machine that can do it all without a fuss. But if you want to try the S, my advice would be to get the S007 with the 70mm lens and keep using that combo for a while, without adding any other lenses. The S007 is reliable, the AF motors in the lenses will all fail, unless repaired with the new metal cogs (I've had 7 lenses with failed AF motors, the latest is in Wetzlar now, for the second time ....). So make sure that you get one that has been repaired with the new cogs (Leica should be able to tell).

[irenedp]

If you want a mirrorless camera "now", buy the Fuji or the Hasselblad. If you can live with a DSLR, then get the S007 or the S3. The latter has double the resolution than the 7, better ISO and comes handy if you print large. 

I, sincerely, wouldn't wait to the new S. If when it comes out, you find that it's worth the change (which would depend of a mix of features and price point, not only of the camera but of the whole system) then you may consider it.  But waiting for a hypothetical camera which might be an enhanced SL3 or something completely different, is folly.

[BernardC]

On 4/21/2024 at 5:22 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I am not sure this is fully accurate, is it? Leica will still take in all S cameras for repair, they just don't have any more new sensors for the S2 and S006, so if there are sensor problems they will not be able to solve all of them. But they still repair the other aspects of the camera.

Yes, they'll still repair any S camera, but they appear to have used-up all replacement sensors. There is an aftermarket company that claims to repair S sensors (they also do M9 sensors), but I was lucky enough to replace mine before Leica ran out. Maybe someone else here has tried them?

[mikelevitt]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:08 AM, BernardC said:

Yes, they'll still repair any S camera, but they appear to have used-up all replacement sensors. There is an aftermarket company that claims to repair S sensors (they also do M9 sensors), but I was lucky enough to replace mine before Leica ran out. Maybe someone else here has tried them?

I have a 006 with a Leica replaced sensor, and one with the Kolari replacement of the sensor glass.  I have not tried them side by side in a real test, but anecdotally they both look great.  Kolari glass is about $1000.

[lencap]

I appreciate all the comments.  After reading your experiences it seems as if the best path right now is to stick with the SL platform.  For the majority of my shots the incremental benefits of medium format don't seem worth the added expense and likely reliability of moving to the S platform.  Shifting to Hasselblad or Fuji also seems to be more of a commitment than I'm ready to make at this time.

 

[mgrayson3]

Important Rule: Unreleased cameras don't exist. They may never exist. They can get to the announcement phase and still be cancelled. They can be announced and delayed several years. I've heard a wide range of S4 rumors, including all new lenses and no adapters for current S lenses. I've heard it was a definite go and also that it was dead in the water. Until you can walk into a store and walk out with one, it's not worth thinking about.

Get something you want now if you want it. Used S stuff is cheap, but may not be so easy to move if you decide later that you don't want to go that way. Me? I'm never selling my S gear even though I don't use it as my main camera.

My 2p,

Matt

[tom0511]

Am 27.4.2024 um 18:45 schrieb mgrayson3:

Important Rule: Unreleased cameras don't exist. They may never exist. They can get to the announcement phase and still be cancelled. They can be announced and delayed several years. I've heard a wide range of S4 rumors, including all new lenses and no adapters for current S lenses. I've heard it was a definite go and also that it was dead in the water. Until you can walk into a store and walk out with one, it's not worth thinking about.

Get something you want now if you want it. Used S stuff is cheap, but may not be so easy to move if you decide later that you don't want to go that way. Me? I'm never selling my S gear even though I don't use it as my main camera.

My 2p,

Matt

yeah...the existing S cameras and lenses still offer terrific IQ. IBIS wouldn't hurt though

It's just all a bit big for nowadays. Eventhough, the ergonomics are very very good for my taste. Just not a system where you carry 2 bodies and 5 lenses for a hike.

I will keep my S-equipment.

 

 

[mikelevitt]

On 4/24/2024 at 7:17 PM, lencap said:

I appreciate all the comments.  After reading your experiences it seems as if the best path right now is to stick with the SL platform.  For the majority of my shots the incremental benefits of medium format don't seem worth the added expense and likely reliability of moving to the S platform.  Shifting to Hasselblad or Fuji also seems to be more of a commitment than I'm ready to make at this time.

 

I forgot to mention that as the owner of a complete Hasselblad V system back in the day, that the Leica S has nothing in common with the mode of operation and feel of using the hasselblad V system.  Think of the S as a big slow clunky DSLR - more like a big Nikon F3, Pentax 67, etc.  The Fuji is just a great sensor and IBIS in an average mirrorless body - good viewfinder, decent AF, crazy menus, great results.  

The "benefits?"

Leica S - beautiful look to the lenses and files after you get past the slow operation, primitive metering, and 1999 autofocus.

GFX - huge files with excellent DR, good AF, excellent stabilization, great line of lenses at low cost.  But doesn't have the look or the depth of emotion of the Leica images.

If you like the SL, I would stick with it.