Looking to switch from Canon

[crons]

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1 hour ago, 7enderbender said:

I may be getting closer to placing my orders for a chrome M10-R with the 50/1.4. 
 

is it me or are they pretty much sold out everywhere on the pre-owned sites? 

https://leicacamerausa.com/cpo-m10-r-silver-with-battery-battery-charger-boxes-and-strap-2-year-leica-warranty.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/802950725-USE/leica_11891_summilux_m_50mm_f_1_4_asph.html

Edited June 22, 2024 by crons

[kiwidad]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:53 PM, 7enderbender said:

Hello everyone,

I’ve been a lifelong Canon user, starting with the old FD system. I’m still using my 5DII with some primes mostly. 
I had taken a break from photography for a while after a retina detachment. 
I also got frustrated when Canon came out with the R series - basicallly rendering my equipment worthless more or less. I’m not going through another change with them. I find mirrorless cameras with electronic viewfinders stupid - and I frankly still miss using my old Canon AE-1p. I have no use for autofocus, live view, video etc. 

long story short - I should’ve bought a Leica back then in the first place. 
 

So, I’m now in the market for a digital M body with the 50 1.4 asph lens. My favorite and go to on my Canon is the 50 1.2L. Still love it but not exactly compact. 
 

Question now is, new M11 (with all the issues I read about) or safe some money and get a used M10r…

Just remember “all the issue you read about” isn’t a factual known issue that affects all m11 cameras. 
there are some who have issue but just how widespread they are is very unknown. I do not have and more issues that I had with Nikon or fuji

the big question is coming from a dslr would you like an SL3 or a M11 better! Or an m11 with Visoflex get you viewfinder focusing!

welcome to the club!

[7enderbender]

4 minutes ago, kiwidad said:

Just remember “all the issue you read about” isn’t a factual known issue that affects all m11 cameras. 
there are some who have issue but just how widespread they are is very unknown. I do not have and more issues that I had with Nikon or fuji

the big question is coming from a dslr would you like an SL3 or a M11 better! Or an m11 with Visoflex get you viewfinder focusing!

welcome to the club!

I’m pretty firm on the 10R at this point. I like the idea of some extra heft/brass body, the bottom plate instead of an exposed battery door. From what I’ve seen you can’t go wrong with regard to image quality. 
 

SL3 makes no sense to me personally. For that kind of form factor I still have my Canon. Not sold on electronic view finders. I’m looking to specifically down size and stick to optical rangefinder, one or two lenses and manual focus. 

[LikameLeica]

4 hours ago, 7enderbender said:

SL3 makes no sense to me personally. For that kind of form factor I still have my Canon. Not sold on electronic view finders. I’m looking to specifically down size and stick to optical rangefinder, one or two lenses and manual focus. 

I think there is an argument for switching to the SL system and then to the M system together with SL.  

I switched from Canon to Leica back in 2017, where I purchased the original Leica SL (601).  The EVF on the Leica SL series is amazing (no lag and being able to see exposure real time to me were game changing).  I originally intended to adapt my Canon lenses, but over time have sold all my Canon gear.  I have two SL lenses (the 24-90 and the 35 SL APO), but also a number of M lenses that I use on SL system for that manual feel and amazing quality of these prime lenses.  The experience using the M lenses on the SL system, for me, is outstanding and the size when just carrying the SL with M lenses is not too bad.  I eventually upgraded to the SL2 and SL2-S, now sold the SL2 and only have the SL2-S.

I also had the desire to try iconic M rangefinder and when the M11 came out, I jumped all in.  I have truly enjoyed the M experience and most of my day to day shooting is on the M11 now and most are with the 35 1.4 Summilux, where I can crop in post edit with 60MP resolution flexibility.  But there are times where carrying the SL2-S with the 24-90 is a better option (weather sealing and harsh environments primarily).  This also gives me flexibility to use the M to L adapter and use my M lenses on the SL2-S.

Everyone's decision, really is unique to their preferences.  But I think the combination of the M and SL with lens from both systems is a great and flexible set-up.  Expensive adventure for sure.

 

[7enderbender]

22 minutes ago, LikameLeica said:

I think there is an argument for switching to the SL system and then to the M system together with SL.  

[…] 

Everyone's decision, really is unique to their preferences.  But I think the combination of the M and SL with lens from both systems is a great and flexible set-up.  Expensive adventure for sure.

 

Expensive -if not excessive- adventure indeed. That’s why I’m sitting on my designated funds for this and mulling it over still (I usually don’t pass the marshmallow test once a general decision is made). 
 

I look at this as an opportunity to simplify, downsize, and hopefully take more pictures/carry the camera more often. This is strictly for personal use. My days of taking photos even as a side gig are over.  I’ve been around long enough to know what I prefer and what I’m halfway decent at (and where I suck or have no interest). Hence the idea of going with THE rangefinder and a fast(ish) 50 (and a 28 potentially).  That’s what I’m most comfortable with since the film days. 
I like manual things and as little electronics as is still useful. That’s why I cling to and baby my old manual transmission BMW and would be hard pressed to pick anything out of current manufacturers fleet that I’d want. That’s why I like fountain pens. That’s why any iPhone “update” gives me hives. 
Not that “everything was better in the good old days” - but most modern innovations go too far for my taste. Leica Ms seem the only cameras that have kept the basics covered while introducing top notch modern sensors. SL or anything that the other big manufacturers came out with don’t cut it for me. Reminds me of the electronic dials and screens in new cars. 
 

 

[LikameLeica]

11 hours ago, 7enderbender said:

Expensive -if not excessive- adventure indeed. That’s why I’m sitting on my designated funds for this and mulling it over still (I usually don’t pass the marshmallow test once a general decision is made). 
 

I look at this as an opportunity to simplify, downsize, and hopefully take more pictures/carry the camera more often. This is strictly for personal use. My days of taking photos even as a side gig are over.  I’ve been around long enough to know what I prefer and what I’m halfway decent at (and where I suck or have no interest). Hence the idea of going with THE rangefinder and a fast(ish) 50 (and a 28 potentially).  That’s what I’m most comfortable with since the film days. 
I like manual things and as little electronics as is still useful. That’s why I cling to and baby my old manual transmission BMW and would be hard pressed to pick anything out of current manufacturers fleet that I’d want. That’s why I like fountain pens. That’s why any iPhone “update” gives me hives. 
Not that “everything was better in the good old days” - but most modern innovations go too far for my taste. Leica Ms seem the only cameras that have kept the basics covered while introducing top notch modern sensors. SL or anything that the other big manufacturers came out with don’t cut it for me. Reminds me of the electronic dials and screens in new cars. 
 

 

Sounds like the prior recommendations of M10-R are aligned with your tastes.  I jumped in with the M11 vs. M10-R for the following reasons (higher resolution providing cropping ability, flexibility with more modern light metering options, longer battery life and more modern implementation of battery, programmable function buttons).

Our maybe, if you want to drive a "manual transmission" Leica M you should go with a M6 :>).  

Good luck with your decision.

[maitoparta]

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I had Nikon gear, ending with D700. What angered me big time was the focusing problems. Manual focus was hit and miss, so very hard, and auto focus was even more hit and miss and very annoying. D700 was also big and heavy, boring camera. I did not want to take it with me.

Then I read about Leicas, and read a lot more, like everything I could. Begun to wonder if M Leica could be a solution to all my problems, namely easy to manual focus and wanting to have the camera with me. A camera in a closet is no good. Eventually became convinced that Leica is the solution and I must get one, and so I did, M9 with 50mm Summilux. I was right away in heaven when I got the camera in my hands and tried the shutter. It just clicked. The transition was rather smooth, very interesting, and fun! Have never really looked back to DSLRs. except a year ago when my M9 developed the corrosion issue, which was devastating. In the end Leica offered to trade in my M9 for several cameras, of which I chose M10-R. It is like perfected Leica M digital camera (well, at least until in body image stabilization is made), while still being a still camera and not a video camera. So good it will last for the rest of my life. With M11 they took a little bit different way.

I am not the wisest person by far. But what I have done always is listened my heart, and buying Leica M9 and then much later M10-R has been the two best decisions in my whole life.

Edit: Oh, by the way, M Leica come with me everywhere. I am anytime ready to take pictures. They are never a burden but a great asset. I feel good each time I grab M Leica out of the bag and feel it in my hands. It is a trusted tool making exactly what I want. If it could talk, it would be my best friend.

Edited June 23, 2024 by maitoparta
Addition

[sebas_]

I have started my photographic journey during high school on Canon digital. In college I had one year with analogue large format, which changed my photography process - the film was already expensive for it back then (not comparable with today though). Got my hands on a pre-owned Hasselblad H4D, which produced lovely CCD images, when light was plenty available. Got the first Fuji 100 as a side-kick, as the MF system was large and heavy. Switched to CMOS, then added an Cambo Actus, which gave me the possibility of large format, without the expensive film. 

Changed to an Hasselblad X1D, traded that to a Fuji GFX 50R, because of Capture One support, which was a really bad move retrospectively - the Hasselblad X1D is the one camera I miss from time to times – and the Cambo Actus as it offered something special. 

Switched to the Leica SL2 and added a Q2 as a wide angle option. SL2, my first camera with IBIS - that was a relief.  Great system used it a ton, but then moved away from assignment work and the SL2 started to collect dust, as it was kinda heavy, especially with the APOs (while so great lenses). But I wouldn't take it with me just for an EDC. 

Looking back I carried a Hasselblad H MF system around hiking, did not need a gym back then and could eat anything – guess that is what has changed now 

Moved more into IT, and finally photography felt kinda done for me - so sold the Q2 and later the SL2. Bought a Pana S5II to have something available, when I needed to make some small assignment work, when it comes by. The AF was indeed better with Phase detect. Kept my two SL APOs. 

Several month ago, I got interested in photography again, but this time for me and not as a job. Guess the "job" part was ultimately ruining it for me in the afterthought.
The S5II is a decent performer, but it just feels off for me - I do not feel connected to it.  

So I spend much time researching, which route I should go to re-kindle my joy for photography. As being focused on tech so many years, I was aware that I have to be cautious to not fall into the same trap again. Choose something which just brings joy using it and focus on the creative part this time. And fail miserably because of one's own shortcoming, not blaming the camera's tech. 
Ultimately I wanted something which feels nice, has a distinct design, impeccable image quality, but was still small, lightweight and discreet. I do not want a big system anymore, been there - done that. 

So finally the decision felt between the Hasselblad X2D (small for MF ;)) or the Leica M. I went with the M11-P. 

The Hasselblad excels on image quality and dynamic range, the UI is simply the best one and it has a remarkable IBIS system built in. But the files are huge - and I just do not need 100MP. Almost no dealers have Hasselblad in stock around my area, most list it as a special order item - only the official partner 300km away has some in stock. Warranty is only one year. You are confined to Hasselblad's lens offerings (Leaf Shutter). Getting hands on a test unit for a day/weekend would need to be a rent, the price would be deducted if I decided to buy the system within a week or two, which is okay - but Leica did better. 

The Leica Boutique in my city is just fabulous, really great on customer service. Could use their M10 + lens for a weekend no cost involved - to get to know the M, as I haven't had one ever. I sadly have also issues with my M11-P - corrupted files - but the local dealership really helps me out here - that is the kind of customer service I highly appreciate - and it is so much better to have it in the neighbourhood. Additionally the second hand marked for the M system is huge - got the Visoflex 2, a SEM 21 and M-11 handgrip used at a good price really quickly. Thirdly there are other lens manufacturers with special offerings or just to have an economically friendlier purchase. 
And I appreciate Leica's heritage and what they are doing for the photography community in general. 

To conclude, I think I could have saved a ton of money, if I would have switched to the M much sooner and for me it is the system, which I need to be able to get out of the technical runt and into the right headspace to just have fun with photography and start creating. 

I have only two wishes on the technical side, firstly get the firmware sorted out with the M11's and secondly add an IBIS into the next M body.

For me the M is the first camera, where I feel a connection and an actual emotion towards it.
And despite the current bugs, it still feels just to be the right decision to move into the M system. And it is the first camera, which I just swing over my shoulder and take with me no matter where I am going - and I love the images, even when they are a bit blurred or a bit out-of-focus. 

Edited June 26, 2024 by sebas_

[Jamie Roberts]

Long-time Canon and Leica (M&R) user here...

Two obvious points:

1) as others have pointed out, try the rangefinder before you buy. It's expensive, and if you don't like working with it, there are better options. I've known people invest in the system and never get along with it...but those of us who like it, like it *a lot*
2) if you're going for a single lens for a small M travel camera, I'd honestly suggest one of the Leica or Voigtlander 35s. Unlike on Canon, the 35s are better corrected, higher performing, smaller, and easier to use with the RF IMO. I'd much rather shoot with a good CV 35 than the Canon 35L, and a good used 35 f2 ASPH is still a great all-round lens.  

You can always add a fast 50 or 75 later--there are lots of choices. 

FWIW, I have shot with a *lot* of Canon's pro gear over the last (gee!) 20 years. I have special fondness for the 5diii for pro work (best colour IMO) and, believe it or not, the little 6D that followed that (best overall value in a smaller, full-frame, optical SLR camera).

I have an R5 that I will probably sell soon--it's underwhelming for me and I'm not doing studio work or wedding work these days. I sort of hate the EVF too, and the terrible battery life, even though it's one of the best out there. 

(OTH, I *do* really like the little Panasonics though---the S5ii and S5iix are awesome cameras.) But I have lots of Canon glass, so until L mount lenses have everything I want I'll probably always have a Canon. 

[MikeW]

On 6/22/2024 at 5:09 PM, 7enderbender said:

I look at this as an opportunity to simplify, downsize, and hopefully take more pictures/carry the camera more often.

As long as a rangefinder focus system works for you, and it probably will, your experience and wants seem like a really good fit for the M system, whatever body you choose. 

I spent most of my life shooting film on 6x6 and 35mm with waist-level finders, rangefinders, SLR (Contax) focussing prisms, or viewfinder cameras like my tiny Rollei with no focus aid, just zone/hyperfocal focus. I came fairly late into digital, forced by some of the projects I worked on, and now, after wrapping up a last project with Nikon Z8 and Z9 and some great Z glass, I'm happy to be able to return back to an M and a more contemplative, manual everything, experience.

Shooting a digital M for me feels a bit like my film camera experiences, as I'm farsighted enough that chimping doesn't work for me unless on a tripod or in a studio and my glasses are at hand; I don't carry them with me when out and about. 

My M11-p and a second lends fits in a small sling bag and is always with me now; I certainly cannot say I met that standard with either the Z8 or Z9 that I'm boxing up to sell or any other digital camera system I've used over the past 15+ years save the Ricoh GR II and a few years with the Ricoh GRX with M glass.

Edited June 26, 2024 by MikeW

[7enderbender]

It’s done. Thanks for all the input here. Ordered a chrome M10-R via the Leica CPO program and a like-new chrome 50mm 1.4 ASPH (11892 version made from brass)

That will keep me busy re-learning everything for a while. Researching clear filters (does the shallow B+W one work?), straps and a small sling bag. 
 

Second lens and flash/remote will wait. 

[7enderbender]

Lens and camera came in. What a thing of beauty just considering design and precision. 
I’ll be out and about getting used to things. 

[SudaliuS]

15 hours ago, 7enderbender said:

Lens and camera came in. What a thing of beauty just considering design and precision. 

Congratulations! I've got my M11 last weekend. The same feelings