I own two SL2 bodies. New SL3 just came out - so I bought an R9

[hansvons]

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I took this shot with my R6 and the 35mm Summicron R V2 three years ago. I find it even better than its sibling, the 35mm Summcrion ASPH. This shot isn't part of my body of work; it's too generic. But it's important to me, as it proved that shooting B&W and developing it myself is a viable way to create proper B&W images that I prefer to anything digitally acquired. 

Delta 100 in Xtol. It's not the best scan (I'm now much better at it and might rescan the negative sometime). I still love Delta 100 for B&W landscape photography.

 

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[costa43]

On 5/10/2024 at 6:45 PM, trickness said:

No way I'd ever get tonality like this from digital. This is with the 100mm APO Macro and Portra 160. The SL2 would be a lot sharper, more contrast, more saturated colors. But it wouldn't be this gentle and organic, not even close.

There is this emotional thing about the film shots that is easier to get than digital.

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Just great 👍 

[trickness]

14 hours ago, hansvons said:

I haven't monitored this thread for half a year or so. I clearly missed out a lot! Great to see your talent here in the R forums.

I myself own an R4. It’s a reminder of the 90ies when I spent some time in NYC with it and the kit 50mm Summicron as a young lad. I was a proud freshman cameraman (newsgatheringing back then) and figured that a Leica would fit me well in my new profession. I still have the slides from that time somewhere. 

It took me 29 years to pick up a proper stills camera again (I got a few digital point-and-shoots on the way for family snaps, later substituted with phones), as my desire to create images was satisfied by my job. Before Covid hit, I left advertising and became an environmentalist. At that time, I sold my cine kit and figured I had left image-making for good. Or so I thought. 
 

A year later I purchased an SL2-S. It’s probably the best digital camera money can buy in terms of image fidelity (not resolution). Then the stills photography bug hit me as bad as I was hit by the cinematography bug in my youth, if not worse. I added to the SL2-S a Canon 44“ printer, two film Ms, and an R6 because my R4‘s electronics died and I have an R primes set that I originally purchased for video shoots on the SL2-S. 
 

Despite the brilliant sensor and colour science I never bonded with the SL2-S, the Arri Alexa, Red, any digital cine cameras for that matter because they are digital, dead-eyed Polyphemi. Add to that the lost thrill of not knowing what I'll be getting (it‘s all in one‘s anticipation when visualising the shot), reverting back to my beloved cine stocks was a natural move. Today, I shoot 95% my work on film, even large parts of my little assignments (mostly editorial stuff).
 

I‘m now 57. I don’t know if I will ever be able to be in the stills world as successful as I was with moving images. Probably not. But that doesn’t matter. I use my camera for exploring humanity‘s influence on the environment, basically shooting landscapes. But I snap them if I were shooting on the streets. I don’t care about light, composition, and the rest of it. I care about the subject, the moment, me. I don’t use a tripod, never wait for the right light, the mist, the sweetness of a motif. I just snap reality.

I do this now in the third year and I somewhat developed my voice. Film is a huge part of that voice, as is my 35mm lens. And yes, it can’t be stressed enough: 

I’d even go further and argue that it’s impossible to reach that emotional level with digital. From Spielberg to Nolan to Gursky and many more: film is their preferred medium for a reason. And that's not nostalgia. 

Thanks for this note! I'm really enjoying my R9 and the MP I bought - sadly haven't picked up my SL2 or Q2M really at all since getting into film, SL2 is now on scanning duties.

I enjoy the SL2 and Q2M because stye give me exactly the result I am trying to achieve, down to the last mm. When I absolutely have to get it right, I know these tools won't let me down.

I enjoy film for the opposite reason - I'm getting a lot of happy accidents, especially with the M and double exposures on the R9. I can get predictable results of course if I want that, but it's not really what I'm leaning into with my film cameras. I am experimenting with slower shutter speeds, camera movement, asking subjects to move - juts thinking differently. Obviously that means a lot more crap on the roll 🙂 but I'm ok with that. I've attached an MP/50 Lux image I shot at maybe f2 with Tri-X pushed to 1600 at the Coney Island sideshow - the girl poured broken glass out of that bucket onto the blanket and danced on it. There were stage lights, but she was moving, and it was tough to get focus. But that blur and the way film handled the highlights compliment the image, whereas digital would be far more clinical. I know because I have lots of SL2 images shot with the same glass in the same venue/lighting.

I'm not really chasing resolution at all anymore, or sharpness, shadow detail, dynamic range - I'm just trying to get the exposure triangle into a place where something a little "off" happens. I'm at the beginning of this road. It's fun - expensive to get a roll developed here pushed ($12) so I may start doing that myself. I'm 59 myself and I spent the past five years telling all my film photographer friends that they were crazy - now I'm an inmate in the same asylum!

It's great hearing from folks shooting film on Leica - I feel like we're a niche within a niche 😂 - thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!

Jim

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[trickness]

4 hours ago, costa43 said:

Just great 👍 

Thank you!!!!

[thebarnman]

38 minutes ago, trickness said:

Thanks for this note! I'm really enjoying my R9 and the MP I bought - sadly haven't picked up my SL2 or Q2M really at all since getting into film, SL2 is now on scanning duties.

I enjoy the SL2 and Q2M because stye give me exactly the result I am trying to achieve, down to the last mm. When I absolutely have to get it right, I know these tools won't let me down.

I enjoy film for the opposite reason - I'm getting a lot of happy accidents, especially with the M and double exposures on the R9.

 

I think some of this look can be achieved using a MM with slow shutter speed with aperture wide open...even naturally give some of that grain look (particularly with the early MM model,) but I think that look would be much harder to achieve with something like the SL3.    I love your picture by the way.

Taken with my R9 with the 90mm f/2 APO-Summicron-SL ASPH lens captured on 800 ISO Cine Still film pushed two stops.  Yes, color film pushed two stops...imagine that!

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Edited June 6, 2024 by thebarnman

[trickness]

17 minutes ago, thebarnman said:

I think some of this look can be achieved using a MM with slow shutter speed with aperture wide open...even naturally give some of that grain look (particularly with the early MM model,) but I think that look would be much harder to achieve with something like the SL3.    I love your picture by the way.

Taken with my R9 with the 90mm f/2 APO-Summicron-SL ASPH lens captured on 800 ISO Cine Still film pushed two stops.  Yes, color film pushed two stops...imagine that!

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I have a Q2M and while I agree that you can kind of get close to this image look with a monochrom, it just doesn’t handle blur or highlights the same way. And I don’t like the grain as much.
 

thanks for the kind words about my picture and wow, this photo does look very cool! So two stops….3200??

 

[thebarnman]

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5 hours ago, trickness said:

I have a Q2M and while I agree that you can kind of get close to this image look with a monochrom, it just doesn’t handle blur or highlights the same way. And I don’t like the grain as much.
 

thanks for the kind words about my picture and wow, this photo does look very cool! So two stops….3200??

 

Yep, that's right...color pushed to 3200 ISO!  I had to send it out to Photographic Works in Tucson AZ because the local labs in the Phoenix area would not or could not push it like that.  There was crazy color blotches (see the blue splotches in the image below) all over the pictures on some of the images (which gave it kind of a interesting effect) and for the most part they were all a harsh and have blown out highlight areas which I had to work to bring down.  Lots of digital work in Lightroom (working from larger jpeg scans) is what really helped bring them out to a presentable state.    

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[trickness]

3 minutes ago, thebarnman said:

Yep, that's right...color pushed to 3200 ISO!  I had to send it out to Photographic Works in Tucson AZ because the local labs in the Phoenix area would not or could not push it like that.  There was crazy color blotches (see the blue splotches in the image below) all over the pictures on some of the images (which gave it kind of a interesting effect) and for the most part they were all a harsh and have blown out highlight areas which I had to work to bring down.  Lots of digital work in Lightroom (working from larger jpeg scans) is what really helped bring them out to a presentable state.    

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I think when I’m in a situation when it’s gonna be this dark, I just don’t even shoot color. Not even on digital because it’s just noisy or the color looks weird. Color and light are really tough. One of the very few people I’ve ever seen do it well (like crazy well) is Khalik Allah in his book Souls Against The Concrete.

[thebarnman]

21 minutes ago, trickness said:

I think when I’m in a situation when it’s gonna be this dark, I just don’t even shoot color. Not even on digital because it’s just noisy or the color looks weird. Color and light are really tough. One of the very few people I’ve ever seen do it well (like crazy well) is Khalik Allah in his book Souls Against The Concrete.

I think with the new SL3 and crazy clean looking images well above 3200 ISO, I'm guessing it would look just fine but then again I'm only going by what I've read and looking at what others have posted using such high ISOs. 

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[hansvons]

Nice images @thebarnman. These shots  impressively give an inside look into gambling hell. 
What film did you use?

[thebarnman]

5 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Nice images @thebarnman. These shots  impressively give an inside look into gambling hell. 
What film did you use?

Gambling hell?  That's funny!  Actually a nice group of people gathering to play pinball and other arcade games.  Guests from all around the country brought their collections to one location and set it to free play.  Pinball from the 1950s through today & arcade and video games from the 70s through today.  One admittance fee and you're good to the whole day! 

It was all shot on 800 ISO Cine Still film pushed two stops to 3200 ISO.  

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[hansvons]

16 minutes ago, thebarnman said:

Gambling hell?  That's funny! 

Thank you for the deeper insight. Indeed, I was wondering why people looked to engaged. In similar "real" settings, people tend to look more zombielized, if that is a word.

As you know, Cinestill 800 is 5219 500T with the anti-halation stripped away. In cinematography, pushing this stock by one stop is an often-used way to give a film a gritty look, but it’s mostly exposed at box speed or even lower at ISO 320. 

Did you measure the light? Often, such high pushes are not necessary. Nice images anyway and a great way of doing stuff differently. Thanks for sharing!

Edited June 8, 2024 by hansvons

[thebarnman]

1 hour ago, hansvons said:

Thank you for the deeper insight. Indeed, I was wondering why people looked to engaged. In similar "real" settings, people tend to look more zombielized, if that is a word.

As you know, Cinestill 800 is 5219 500T with the anti-halation stripped away. In cinematography, pushing this stock by one stop is an often-used way to give a film a gritty look, but it’s mostly exposed at box speed or even lower at ISO 320. 

Did you measure the light? Often, such high pushes are not necessary. Nice images anyway and a great way of doing stuff differently. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks.  Well, I didn't bother measuring the light as I shot the whole series with aperture priority.  I just focused shoot, focused shoot.  The reason for shooting with higher speed color film and pushing it two stops was a deliberate choice to get a really super gritty look and the fact I never pushed color film that hard before.  I was trying to recreate a 70s to early 80s look and I was surprised I mostly didn't achieve that.  To me it mostly turned out to be a dreamy psychedelic color fantasy...possibly exciting in some ways. 

 

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[hansvons]

2 minutes ago, thebarnman said:

To me it mostly turned out to be a dreamy psychedelic color fantasy...possibly exciting in some ways. 

Absolutely. 

[thebarnman]

2 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Absolutely. 

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[hansvons]

On 6/7/2024 at 12:33 AM, trickness said:

I'm not really chasing resolution at all anymore, or sharpness, shadow detail, dynamic range - I'm just trying to get the exposure triangle into a place where something a little "off" happens.

Exactly my thinking. 

Below, my daughter in a mid-pandemic mood. The shot is from my time when the R6 and the 50mm Summicron were my new, old toy.

I overexposed the shot by 2 stops and pushed it by 1+ stops, all accidentally because I thought I was using Delta 100 but it turned out after development that the roll was Agfa APX 400 (basically Kentmere 400). These accidents can lead to unforeseen learnings, immensely broadening the horizon. 

Again a particularly bad scan, with zero resolution, and no dynamic range. But I can't care less because everything is self-consistent and plausible. 

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[farnz]

22 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Exactly my thinking. 

Below, my daughter in a mid-pandemic mood. The shot is from my time when the R6 and the 50mm Summicron were my new, old toy.

I overexposed the shot by 2 stops and pushed it by 1+ stops, all accidentally because I thought I was using Delta 100 but it turned out after development that the roll was Agfa APX 400 (basically Kentmere 400). These accidents can lead to unforeseen learnings, immensely broadening the horizon. 

Again a particularly bad scan, with zero resolution, and no dynamic range. But I can't care less because everything is self-consistent and plausible. 

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This picture shows your daughter's dark mood on the day beautifully.  (I wouldn't mess with her in this mood. )

Pete.