Q3 Profile Not Remembering Self-Timer after Power-Off

[Pindy]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

In the latest firmware as of this writing (2.0.1) I'm seeing that if I have the self-timer turned on as part of a user profile, when powered off then on again, Q3 will forget that my self timer is part of the profile, even though all other settings are retained. I have a profile set up for tripod use, and it is annoying—really rather inconvenient—that the Q3 just forgets I have the timer on unless I re-choose that profile. 

Is anyone else seeing this?

 

[David Wien]

I cant prove this scientifically, but I often find *touch AF* reset to active, when it is firmly turned off in my profile. It is a nuisance! 😀

David

 

[Guest]

Yes, there seems to be a bug or inconsistency here.

Normally, when you shutdown the camera with a User Profile selected the camera will restart with the Profile still set.

However, if you save a Profile with the self-timer set and then shutdown and restart the camera the camera starts up without the self-timer set. Also, if you look at the Profile icon on the quick menu page you can see that the saved/default Profile has not been restored

If you then manually select the saved profile all is well again.

I'm guessing that when the camera starts it selects the correct Profile, but without the self-timer, and that is why the camera shows that an "unsaved" profile is restored

[Pindy]

8 hours ago, Corius said:

Yes, there seems to be a bug or inconsistency here.

Normally, when you shutdown the camera with a User Profile selected the camera will restart with the Profile still set.

However, if you save a Profile with the self-timer set and then shutdown and restart the camera the camera starts up without the self-timer set. Also, if you look at the Profile icon on the quick menu page you can see that the saved/default Profile has not been restored

If you then manually select the saved profile all is well again.

I'm guessing that when the camera starts it selects the correct Profile, but without the self-timer, and that is why the camera shows that an "unsaved" profile is restored

You have perfectly described my observations. I tested all my other profiles and they consistently show as being still active when I power the camera back on (a person icon with the number next to it), except this one. 

Must be a bug. 
 

 

[bobtodrick]

Could it possibly be purposeful?

I think there are not that many people who would want the camera to revert to self timer mode…it is something 98% of photographers only use occasionally.

It may (and this is only a theory) that it is designed this way to avoid starting your camera to get that quick shot only to miss it because the self timer is set.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bobtodrick said:

Could it possibly be purposeful?

I think there are not that many people who would want the camera to revert to self timer mode…it is something 98% of photographers only use occasionally.

It may (and this is only a theory) that it is designed this way to avoid starting your camera to get that quick shot only to miss it because the self timer is set.

In retrospect I think you're right. I notice that if you set self-timer mode without saving it to a profile and then restart the camera it is similarly deactivated on restart.

Given that's it's a self-timer no photo opportunities would likely be lost due to having to reselect it, but the converse, as you point out, could make you miss a shot.

As you say, this is probably what the majority of people would want and fits with Leica's UI goal of simplicity.

[Aram Langhans]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I never thought of it this way, but it is a good feature. I use the self timer often when doing macro or tripod work with both my Q3 and my Nikon Z7ii.  But I often times pick up the Nikon for a quick shot of something and low and behold, the darn self timer is still active.  So in thinking about this, having it default to off is a good thing.  And with the Q3 rather than the Nikon, it is easy to select the profile again and have it active.  Or I also have the function button defaulted to the self timer, so that is quick, too, if I need it without the other tripod settings like image stabailzation off.  Those Wetzlar elves are geniuses.    

[Pindy]

6 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

Could it possibly be purposeful?

I think there are not that many people who would want the camera to revert to self timer mode…it is something 98% of photographers only use occasionally.

It may (and this is only a theory) that it is designed this way to avoid starting your camera to get that quick shot only to miss it because the self timer is set.

Well, I'm going to dissent here, but I think you are correct in identifying a logical inconsistency on Leica's part.

The point of having user profiles is that you should be able to get what you expect, consistently, until you change camera states.  This is different from the dynamic choice of needing a self-timer to take a group photo—you're asking for every function to be "baked in" to a profile. It does not follow that you would bake in any function only to want it to disappear after being turned off or having gone into power-saving mode. That's where I'm not buying it.

So really it's down to Leica being (or not being) CONSISTENT with their user philosophy:

1. If a user dynamically sets a self-timer, it would stand to reason that they only need it momentarily.

2. If a user programs a self-timer into their profile, it means that they intend it to be available on a consistent basis.

[bobtodrick]

18 minutes ago, Pindy said:

Well, I'm going to dissent here, but I think you are correct in identifying a logical inconsistency on Leica's part.

The point of having user profiles is that you should be able to get what you expect, consistently, until you change camera states.  This is different from the dynamic choice of needing a self-timer to take a group photo—you're asking for every function to be "baked in" to a profile. It does not follow that you would bake in any function only to want it to disappear after being turned off or having gone into power-saving mode. That's where I'm not buying it.

So really it's down to Leica being (or not being) CONSISTENT with their user philosophy:

1. If a user dynamically sets a self-timer, it would stand to reason that they only need it momentarily.

2. If a user programs a self-timer into their profile, it means that they intend it to be available on a consistent basis.

Sorry, I beg to differ.

Where does it end?  Really, out of 100 photographers I think you would be hard pressed to find 1 that wanted to be able to set their camera to open with the self timer on.

How about the person who for some reason wants their image saved at a 45% angle (I know...I'm stretching here)...should their be processing power devoted to that?

[Pindy]

28 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

How about the person who for some reason wants their image saved at a 45% angle (I know...I'm stretching here)...should their be processing power devoted to that?

Yeah that’s way more out there than what I’m proposing. 
 

If Leica intent the user to not have consistency in a feature, they shouldn’t allow it to be added to a profile in the first place. Again, it’s not logical. 

Edited March 25, 2024 by Pindy

[bobtodrick]

33 minutes ago, Pindy said:

Yeah that’s way more out there than what I’m proposing. 
 

If Leica intent the user to not have consistency in a feature, they shouldn’t allow it to be added to a profile in the first place. Again, it’s not logical. 

Sorry but it really is out there (IMO…and I have been know to be wrong 😛)

But in selling to pros, schools and industrial users for 30 years this is the first time I’ve heard of anyone wishing their camera to start up in self timer mode.

[Le Chef]

28 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

But in selling to pros, schools and industrial users for 30 years this is the first time I’ve heard of anyone wishing their camera to start up in self timer mode.

Let me just think about that for a minute…

[Pindy]

56 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

Sorry but it really is out there (IMO…and I have been know to be wrong 😛)

But in selling to pros, schools and industrial users for 30 years this is the first time I’ve heard of anyone wishing their camera to start up in self timer mode.

I completely understand where your head is at. But this is why user profiles are clever. Profiles don’t need to suffer the tyranny of the majority.

My argument is simply that if I’m spending several days shooting landscapes, or urban cityscapes, and I’ve got ND filters on, then the way I want to release my shutter is with some sort of timer countdown, and I think 95% of people in that position would agree. There is no working cable release to my knowledge—the Q3’s threads are for soft releases only.  There, I’ve just laid out my “majority use case” for tripod/long exposure photographers!

Now of course, you can use the FOTOS app, but I discovered yesterday in the field how much of a faff it is to wrangle yet another device that has its own power saving and on/off states, and can easily lose WIFI connection between setups. It’s cool but not perfect. So for people who are working on steady mounts, a profile choice being available to provide a consistent, timed release seems not only sensible, but would consume no more resources to implement in firmware.

 If I’m in the wrong profile to catch some sort of fleeting moment (the “you’ll miss the shot” argument from above), the fact is you’d likely have to alter multiple settings to go from what’s optimal for tripod use (a fixed, slow ISO, manual focus modes, possibly much else) to the situation in which you suddenly find yourself, and a 2-second timer you forgot was on is now the least of your worries! Now if only we had a way to quickly and comprehensively change a bunch of settings all in one go (!)

In short: Rather than the camera being paternalistic, I want it to be my choice. Like everything else in the camera.

Interestingly, Leica allows you to program “Format Card” and “Acoustic Signal” onto any button, and think of how precious few of us would want to do so. But Leica wants this to be something anyone can choose, no matter how meaningless it is to the majority of workflows, and I can respect that. And Leica have provided us with the means to de-populate menus of settings we will never want to assign to a button in our workflow. I just don’t buy that they would want to “save me from myself” about only this one thing. And it makes me think this is just a bug, or was not sufficiently thought through on the white board flow chart at Wetzlar. User Interface design is a game of principles consistently applied. 

[David Wien]

2 hours ago, Pindy said:

Now if only we had a way to quickly and comprehensively change a bunch of settings all in one go (!)

There is, but you have to think ahead: define another profile for the new settings... (Some people actually do this.)

David

Edited March 25, 2024 by David Wien

[Domip]

I observe the same thing but without having the Self timer in my profile... after waking up,  my own defined profile is back to the Standard Profile !

[ianforber]

On my Q2 I have a profile for tripod work which I have set to have a self timer. When I switch the camera off it turns back on with that profile selected, include the self timer. I did once miss a shot because of this but I now just try very hard to remember to switch to a different profile once I have taken the camera off the tripod!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ianforber said:

On my Q2 I have a profile for tripod work which I have set to have a self timer. When I switch the camera off it turns back on with that profile selected, include the self timer. I did once miss a shot because of this but I now just try very hard to remember to switch to a different profile once I have taken the camera off the tripod!

That's interesting, I never tried it with my Q2. I guess they must have tweaked the Q3 (for better or worse depending on your viewpoint).

[ianforber]

4 hours ago, Corius said:

That's interesting, I never tried it with my Q2. I guess they must have tweaked the Q3 (for better or worse depending on your viewpoint).

Sorry I’ve misled you! I just checked my Q2 and although I thought it behaved that way, in fact it also forgets the self timer when it’s turned off, regardless of whether the self timer was saved as part of the profile or just as a temporary adjustment while shooting with that profile. 
 

I must’ve been thinking of my M11 which does remember the self timer, both as part of a set profile and when it is just set temporarily during normal shooting - and yes I have just checked that!

 

Maybe the Q2 changed in a firmware update. It seems odd that the M11 remembers despite a user focusing through a rangefinder that doesn’t tell you much. 

[Pindy]

Booooooo

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q