debating between Noctilux 50/1.2 (re-issue) and Summilux 50/1.4 (2023)

[Rollei35]

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As subject, I have decided I need (want) another lens, and am debating between these two, brand new.

The price difference between these two are unsubstantial to me.

I know f1/2 is hard to focus, and the lens is bulkier and heavier. But the weight/size overhead to Lux is not that significant.

I can just using f/1.4 onward with the Noctilux and pretend it's Lux?

Can someone here dissuade me from buying one over the other, not buying either one at all?

Edited March 15, 2024 by Rollei35

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[Pierre68]

Hi, I have both these lenses and I'd be hard pressed to let go one or the other as to me they are quite different. The Noct f/1.2 is a character lens. You would not get a similar image at f/1.4 as you would with the 50 Lux. To me the 50 lux is the best "do it all" Leica lens and probably the last lens I would let go if I had to. At f/1.4 the bokeh is creamy and wonderful. Then the lens is sharp. It is not the case with the Noct f/1.2 which gets really soft at F/1.2 to f/2. But the signature of this lens is wonderful, especially for casual portraits. So I guess you would have to choose between a wonderful "do it all" lens and a specialized character 50mm. In the end you will get both trust me.

[Al Brown]

2 hours ago, Rollei35 said:

I can just using f/1.4 onward with the Noctilux and pretend it's Lux?

Absolutely not. The lux is an ASPH andAPO design and the Noctilux is a sixties re-edition. The noctilux is substantially softer and with more flaws at comparable fastest f-stop of Summilux and way beyond. These are probably Leica's two most opposite 50mm lenses.

We don't dissuade people here, this is not reddit. We encourage to spend it all.
 

Edited March 15, 2024 by Al Brown

[Rollei35]

Thanks for the both inputs so far.

I forgot to mention that I have a Cron 50mm APO, which I like very much. Dreamy wide open at f/2 but clinical and perfect stop down to f/4.

I know I said the price difference between Noctilux and Summilux is unsubstantial, but I want to refrain myself buying both. If I can only have one, which one is better to compliment 50 APO? I guess it's Noctilux?

[costa43]

Like Pierre68 and Al Brown says, these are two completely different lenses, especially at the wider end. F1.4 on the Noctilux is significantly softer than the Summilux with much quicker fall off from a sharpish (acceptable for some) centre into complete mush. If you shoot 50mm and you like modern lens designs, the asph is the best of the lot imo, it’s a classic, it’s the only 50mm you need but on the other hand, If you want character, and lots of it, the Noctilux might work for you. I’ve used the re-issue and stopped down, it’s pretty damn sharp. A two in one lens. 
 

Edited March 15, 2024 by costa43

[evikne]

37 minutes ago, Rollei35 said:

I forgot to mention that I have a Cron 50mm APO, which I like very much. Dreamy wide open at f/2 but clinical and perfect stop down to f/4.

It's the first time I've heard anyone call the 50 APO dreamy – at any aperture.

[patrickcolpron]

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I have both and never use the Lux, I prefer using the reissue. I almost exclusively use it with an M-Monochrom, for close subjects it can be sharp at the minimum focusing distance. 

See images below made with an M-10 Monochrom with a medium yellow filter. I prefer the rendering of the classic reissue over the rendering of the 50 LUX. 

I never use a Visoflex or Live View to nail close focus preferring the accuracy of the range finder patch. 

This said I have both, I second AI Brown recommendation, spend it all - purchase both.

I am in a fortunate position and own a lot of Leica M lenses, if I had to pick only one I'd go for the LUX it is more of a do it all lens. I'll second Pierre in this regards and also second what he said, you'll end up with both and you'll realise like me - the 50/1.2 is more pleasurable and satisfying to use.   

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The 50/1.2 reissue can be sharp at f/1.2 for subjects which are one meter away from you, at f/1.2 for subjects which are further away - yes it can be soft.

But at f/2.8 and at f/4 on an M10-R it's great, and the rendering is wonderful. 

[costa43]

6 minutes ago, evikne said:

It's the first time I've heard anyone call the 50 APO dreamy – at any aperture.

Me too. If the OP finds the APO dreamy then oh boy…the Noctilux 

[patrickcolpron]

57 minutes ago, Rollei35 said:

Thanks for the both inputs so far.

I forgot to mention that I have a Cron 50mm APO, which I like very much. Dreamy wide open at f/2 but clinical and perfect stop down to f/4.

I know I said the price difference between Noctilux and Summilux is unsubstantial, but I want to refrain myself buying both. If I can only have one, which one is better to compliment 50 APO? I guess it's Noctilux?

Oh... didn't realise this until now, I also have the 50 APO, then get the Noctilux, I use the APO more than the LUX and the Noctilux more than all my other 50's.

The Noctilux reissue is also the lens I use on an M10-Monochom for all family dinner and holidays almost exclusively. 

The 50/1.2 reissue is a pleasure to use, I almost never use the lens hood for it, too bulky. It balances great on an M body. It truly shines for black and white photography and works great with color sensors and color and black and white film stock. 

With a pair of 50 APO and a Noctilux, you don't need a 50/1.4  

[Rollei35]

31 minutes ago, evikne said:

It's the first time I've heard anyone call the 50 APO dreamy – at any aperture.

I shot lots of indoors portraits with the 50 APO, back-lit environment, and wide open at f/2. To me those pictures look dreamy enough.

 

[Rollei35]

13 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

Oh... didn't realise this until now, I also have the 50 APO, then get the Noctilux, I use the APO more than the LUX and the Noctilux more than all my other 50's.

The Noctilux reissue is also the lens I use on an M10-Monochom for all family dinner and holidays almost exclusively. 

The 50/1.2 reissue is a pleasure to use, I almost never use the lens hood for it, too bulky. It balances great on an M body. It truly shines for black and white photography and works great with color sensors and color and black and white film stock. 

With a pair of 50 APO and a Noctilux, you don't need a 50/1.4  

Thanks, that's what I was expecting too. The 50 APO is almost "glued" to my M11, I cannot find any flaws of this lens.

I have a M10-R with lots of different other lenses on and off. I am planning to get the Noctilux onto the M10-R.

I don't own a Monochrom M, and for the time being have no plan to acquire one. I just use M10-R b&w and pretend I shoot Mono.

 

Edited March 15, 2024 by Rollei35

[Warton]

I knew it. Anytime some asked for an opinion of choosing between A and B, the answer is always getting both

[Al Brown]

43 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

With a pair of 50 APO and a Noctilux, you don't need a 50/1.4

If one regards lenses just for their speed then by all means, between f/1.2 and f/2 one needs nothing else. Yet the 50 lux ASPH has an unmatched and unparalleled look wide open (I even started a thread for its unique render) that cannot be replicated by anything in M arsenal (except maybe 75 APO of sorts).

[a.noctilux]

26 minutes ago, Warton said:

the answer is always getting both

Both of course, the next problem is which one first B or A.

I'd say right answer is C = A + B + C 😇 in the end.

We can not have too many 50mm (*) anyway.

(*) or 21, 28, 35, 75, 90, etc.

[fil-m]

You have the APO Cron 50, so I'd recommend that you go for something which is radically different in terms of creativity (1.2) plus character (vintage vs the more modern Lux Asph and APO signatures)

Such a combo would allow you to experience a wider range of shooting styles depending on your mood and/or what you are trying to achieve whether shooting portraits, making pictures on the street etc 

My take anyway. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Rollei35 said:

I just use M10-R b&w and pretend I shoot Mono.

 

Unless you shoot exclusively for B&W on a given outing - no exceptions for even a single color pic - then the experience and mindset is different, IMO. A Monochrom avoids all distractions by not looking for or considering potential color pics, as when one uses film camera loaded with B&W (Photoshop ‘tricks’ aside).

Jeff

[Rollei35]

ok, you guys win.

I just put an order in for Noctilux. We will see....., meanwhile let me cry 😭 a while for my bank account.

Edited March 16, 2024 by Rollei35

[a.noctilux]

7 hours ago, Rollei35 said:

meanwhile let me cry 😭 a while for my bank account.

No worry ...

You will fill the bank account as quick as possible for the NEXT.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jrp]

Don’t know what’s going on but the APO wide open at the edge is probably sharper than most 50mm lenses in their centre. 

[evikne]

Perhaps what the OP has in mind when he says "dreamy" is the shallow depth of field at the largest apertures; the out-of-focus areas are blurred. But as long as the focused area is pin-sharp, this is not what is usually referred to as a dreamy rendering.