GFX50R or Leica SL?

[tgj]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting here, so please bear with me. I've been a long-time shooter with the Fujifilm X-Pro2, but I'm now looking to venture into something different, specifically beyond the APS-C format. I'm considering the GFX50R and the Leica SL, which are similarly priced on the used market. I really appreciate both of these cameras, especially for their color rendering. As a hobbyist, my main subjects are travel, cars, and once a while I will get paid gigs for portraits for graduation photos. Which of these two cameras would you recommend for someone with my interests?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Pieter12]

First, wrong forum, Try the SL guys (L-Mount group).

I am unfamiliar with either camera, but I'll venture the Fuji has a similar menu system and control placement as your XPro2 (which I do have and enjoy very much), so there might be less of a learning curve with the Fuji. Although the bodies may be similarly priced, I would guess the Leica lenses will be more expensive--and better.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Pieter12
addition

[Einst_Stein]

If you like Fuji’s glass (GFX), go with GFX. If you like Leica’s glass (L or M or R mount): you will get the best IQ rendering with SL. 

[Stuart Richardson]

24mp full frame vs 50mp medium format is a substantial difference. Personally I would go with the GFX in this specific scenario, as the difference with your aps camera will be more noticeable, while the controls and processing will be closer. If you were looking at the SL2 the question would be trickier (I would take the SL2 in that context). 

[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

24mp full frame vs 50mp medium format is a substantial difference. Personally I would go with the GFX in this specific scenario, as the difference with your aps camera will be more noticeable, while the controls and processing will be closer. If you were looking at the SL2 the question would be trickier (I would take the SL2 in that context). 

Personally I found color and IQ rendering much more important than the resolution, unless you are selling very large print.

MP may have advantages when everythig else equal.

I have met a professional photographer on a flight. He has many galleries around the world. His print size is typically 12 feet wide. He uses DSLR with round 24MP.   I have also visited some find art print shops where show many very large print. GO to visit similar print shop nearby, No, 50MP is not essential.  

Edited December 11, 2023 by Einst_Stein

[Stuart Richardson]

Yeah, it is true, you can make large prints with low resolution cameras, and of course color and IQ are important, but all else being equal larger sensor area and higher resolution means better color and better image quality. Resolution is one of the main components of image quality, not just for pure resolution, but because more pixels also means more individual color/tone samples, which means smoother gradation and fewer interpolation errors, like moire and aliasing. With respect to the guy you met on that flight, making 12 foot prints from 24mp DSLRs is counter-productive. I am not saying I know everything, but I have been running an exhibition printing studio for fifteen years, and was one of the first Hahnemuhle Certified Studios in Scandinavia. I have made large prints several days a week for most of that time from everything from 640x480 video stills up to 150mp Phase files. Most of the work goes to museums and galleries. Some of it is bad, some is good, and occasionally it is sublime. That has less to do with the camera than the work, of course. No one is saying it doesn't. If you know you are going to be making big prints (and 12 feet wide is ENORMOUS), then using 24mp is a strange idea. Honestly, it makes my BS detector go off...this random guy on a plane who has galleries around the world and prints comically large photos on a low rez DSLR? Ever been to Paris Photo? You don't see a lot of 12 foot wide prints there, and it is the most prestigious photo fair in the world. I think the longest I have ever been asked to print was 3m or so, and those were from 6x17cm panorama cameras purpose built for super large panos. I have also found that professionals and artists often don't know what they are talking about, frankly. They can take good photos and make good art, but often they are misinformed or out of date with their technical information. Some do, but a lot have bad habits they have inherited from the people they assisted or people who taught them outdated information they learned in school decades ago. Most of these people honestly don't have the time to get in the weeds about the technical minutiae, but that does not mean they can't benefit from it. Honestly, it's why I have a job...these people need someone who is more like that to make the work presentable.

In any case, 24mp to about 40-50mp is a big jump in quality for medium to large prints. More visible and noticeable than 50mp to 100mp, for example. 24mp is good and can be used for a lot, but going from a seven year old 24mp APS-C camera to an 8 year old 24mp full frame camera is more of a lateral move than going from a 7 year old 24mp APS-C camera to a five year old 50mp medium format camera. Keep in mind too, that it is only 24mp if you do not crop at all or change the aspect ratio. Crop in even a bit, and you are cutting substantial resolution.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[BernardC]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

24 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I have also found that professionals and artists often don't know what they are talking about, frankly.

One of the things I do to stay in the game is to advise artists on technical issues. Photography isn't my day job, but I really enjoy interacting with artists and figuring-out how to get from "what they envision" to finished products. Plus I get invited to openings. This past weekend I helped an artist figure-out how to stream a multimedia exhibition to an array of video projectors while maintaining sync. We all need a little help sometimes, and I happen to be good at figuring-out that sort of stuff.

[irenedp]

I have made large prints with the M9 and also with the Q1. However, it is easier to do it and the results are better with a camera with a larger sensor and higher resolution. 

On the topic at hand, the Fuji GFX 50r is a simpler and cheaper version of the original 50s aimed mostly at wedding photographers (same as the 100s vs the original 100). I had both the 50s and the 100. I really liked the color and the rendering of the 50s -it is more neutral than that of the 100- and the fuji GFX lenses resolve nicely at that resolution.  The 32-64 zoom is excellent. Only drawback is that the camera is slow (focusing and in continuous shooting) and is not stabilized (same issue of shake at low shutter speeds as can be found in the Leica S)  

The Sl2 is not MF, but has the same resolution, focuses better, and is stabilized. And I believe that the SL2 lenses would beat the Fuji ones any day. 

[davidmknoble]

Agree with @Stuart Richardson.  Having used the S series and some other digital larger formats, along with 120 film and 35mm film, I love the SL2S, but 24mp is just different next to a 40mp image, next to a 60mp image.  It’s not the quantitative numbers, but the smoothness in solid tones and the ‘sparkle’ in the details.

It’s kind of like looking at an image out of camera and loving it, and then editing it and loving it more while realizing the one out of camera was kind of drab you just didn’t know it.

@tgj, the other thing to think about is lenses.  Ask yourself which system lenses can you use on the next body and are they good enough for new technology.  Camera bodies become cheap if you buy too  many lenses!

[tgj]

I initially considered deleting this thread because it was in the wrong place, but I've received so much more feedback here than on the SL forum, so I've decided to keep it. Thank you for your responses - when it comes to colors I love both of them so far - although my favorite film simulation would not be on the 50r. I've heard that the SL 601 features a unique custom sensor, which I thought might offer something more special than just an eight-year-old full-frame sensor - maybe I was wrong.

I own old M mount lenses that I used with my X-Pro, and I plan to add R/M lenses that are reasonably priced. For the GFX system, it seems I might have to invest in GFX lenses. Another option could be Pentax 645 lenses, though I haven't seen many examples of this combination. 

I am planning to keep this camera for at least one or two years, and I don't anticipate printing my work. I'll be using it at car meets and for street photography during my travels (also for graduation portraits for my friends but I think both are more than capable enough for this). Given my use case, do you think I would significantly benefit from an additional 25 megapixels? Will a 24MP count become outdated in the next two years? Also, how do you foresee the resale value of both systems? It would be easier to decide if someone had an 'apple to apple' comparison shot, but I haven't been able to find any.

[Pieter12]

My experience is film lenses don't perform as well as expected on digital cameras.

[davidmknoble]

@tgj, the 24mp will last a long time.  The M9 is still relevant at 18mp.  I use the SL2-S which is 24mp.  The M and R lenses do wonderfully on the SL system and allow you to consider a second body sometime in the M series and share some of the lenses. It does depend on the lens.  That said, the Leica R APO lenses are all wonderful on the SL system and many of the Summilux R lenses (f/1.4, like the 80mm f/1.4).  Many Leica R lenses are not as nice wide open, but they are beautiful 1 to 2 stops in. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think you may find it easier to sell the GFX50R just because it is a more popular camera with a larger market, but it might lose more value. That said, it is still one of the few medium format digital cameras readily available for consumers, so I suspect that while it may lose some value, it will not go to the floor any time soon. I would definitely recommend native lenses over old medium format film lenses. A few reasons: most are longer than you might want because the GFX sensor is smaller than even the smallest medium format film size. Optically MF film did not need to be enlarged as much and while many lenses were very sharp, not all were. CA is also a bigger problem on digital than film, so a lot of older MF lenses have a lot more chromatic aberration than newer lenses. The GFX lenses themselves are very good, so I think in this case it would make sense to use those lenses at least in your most used focal lengths. Neither of these cameras really scream "street photography", but the GFX in particular should do a good job with car photography, where dynamic range can be pretty important (lots of nooks and crannies as well as reflective panels with specular highlights etc). 24mp will be around for awhile. Even though I love Leica, I would not put a whole ton of Leica mystique into the SL. It is a very good camera and has a good sensor with good color etc, but it will have a hard time keeping up with the 50mp sensor in the GFX. At the end of the day a bigger, higher resolution sensor is going to kick out files with more detail, lower noise, and more post processing flexibility. If your main interest is in using a lot of vintage lenses, the SL will be more flexible, but if you want higher image quality and a greater differentiation from your APS camera, I think the GFX is the way to go.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[lilyelliott]

On 12/14/2023 at 3:12 AM, tgj said:

I initially considered deleting this thread because it was in the wrong place, but I've received so much more feedback here than on the SL forum, so I've decided to keep it. Thank you for your responses - when it comes to colors I love both of them so far - although my favorite film simulation would not be on the 50r. I've heard that the SL 601 features a unique custom sensor, which I thought might offer something more special than just an eight-year-old full-frame sensor - maybe I was wrong.

I own old M mount lenses that I used with my X-Pro, and I plan to add R/M lenses that are reasonably priced. For the GFX system, it seems I might have to invest in GFX lenses. Another option could be Pentax 645 lenses, though I haven't seen many examples of this combination. 

I am planning to keep this camera for at least one or two years, and I don't anticipate printing my work. I'll be using it at car meets and for street photography during my travels (also for graduation portraits for my friends but I think both are more than capable enough for this). Given my use case, do you think I would significantly benefit from an additional 25 megapixels? Will a 24MP count become outdated in the next two years? Also, how do you foresee the resale value of both systems? It would be easier to decide if someone had an 'apple to apple' comparison shot, but I haven't been able to find any.

Thanks for the detailed insight! It’s great that you're getting valuable feedback here. Based on your use case, the extra 25MP might not be a game-changer unless you start printing large. Both systems should hold up well for the next couple of years, especially for street photography, car meets, and portraits—including nursing graduation shoots for your friends. Resale value depends on market trends, but the SL 601 might edge out slightly due to its versatility. As for adapting lenses, GFX is more investment-heavy, while SL offers more flexibility with existing M/R lenses. Hope you find the perfect fit for your style!

Edited December 4, 2024 by lilyelliott
Due to poor reply and forget few things to write.

[tgj]

Thank you! I eventually went with the gfx50s, but I sold it for the sl2s. I love the low light capability, and how easy it is to adapt manual lenses. The viewfinder is simply very lovely.