Macro options for SL2 -- with magnification?

[jplotkin]

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I'm new to L (and SL2) ecosystem. And I'm looking for a macro lens primarily for controlled indoor (studio) photographs of very small watch movements, etc. What options are available for the L or SL2?

 I'm not sure what would be better: a 105mm prime 1:1, or a lens that offers magnification (eg 2x or 3x, or variable 1x-3x)?

What are the pros/cons of a lens with "magnification"? And what is the difference between a lens with "magnification" vs a longer prime lens?  

Attached is an example image or two (not mine) of the scale/DOF I'm looking for.

Thanks for advice.

Edited November 26, 2023 by jplotkin
Another example

[hepcat]

The focal length of a macro lens only changes your working distance.  You can work further back with a 105mm than a 60mm macro, for example.  Both are capable of 1:1 or larger with further extension, either through extension tubes or bellows extension.   There are some nuanced differences in working with the various pieces of equipment that will dictate how you go about it, but ultimately all of the methods are capable of the same magnifications and doing the same work.

As I have a Panasonic Lumix S1 L mount camera, I am able to take advantage of the Sigma MC-21 L mount to Canon EOS-EF mount adapter.  While I have a 100mm Leica R mount manual macro that I adapt as well, my go-to lens is the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 AF APO EX DG OS HSM EOS-EF mount lens that works as a native L mount AF lens.  Unfortunately, that's not an option for you with the Leica cameras as the MC-21 doesn't work with them.  The Sigma 150mm gives me nice long working distances in the studio for product illustration. 

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Edited November 26, 2023 by hepcat

[jplotkin]

Thanks for the reply. 
 

In my case I’m fine working as close as 12 inches from the subject. And I want the light from the subject which is roughly 1 square inch to fill the sensor 1:1. From this can I compute the corresponding focal length (eg 105mm) for the lens without the use of tubes?

 

Also: are lenses that advertise 1-5x magnification actually prime lenses with built-in, extendable extension tubes (eg the Cannon MP-E 65mm f/2.8)?

Edited November 27, 2023 by jplotkin

[Stuart Richardson]

You might do well to consider the Novoflex bellows and a dedicated macro lens they sell with it. That would give you greater than 1:1 as well as tilt, which could be very useful with watch movements. 

[dpitt]

This Red Dot Forum talk lists all Leica options (current ones). There are very nice vintage Leica R macro options too.

 

[Guest]

I highly recommend the Sigma 105mm F2.8 DG DN Macro. It has a 1:1 reproduction ratio, minimum focus distance is 29.5 cm. It is also compatible with Sigma's 1.4x TC1411 and 2x TC2011 teleconverters - giving you some additional reach and flexibility. I bought mine last year 'new in box' for $500 -- Sigma has a price promotion going for new lenses for the next 10 days or so ...

 

Here is what that looks like - I took a quick handheld snapshot of my trusted Omega Speedmaster (in need of cleaning ... haven't worn it in a decade ...).

This is how close you can get with this 'true' macro lens (1:1 reproduction) without teleconverters (which would slightly reduce IQ). To be clear: This is the full image, no crop - so you can zoom in significantly, and also potentially use the multi-shot enhanced 96/192 Megapixel resolution with the SL2-S/SL2 (= zooming in on the image below 5-10x).

As an aside, I would always use focus stacking (this is a single shot) for watch photography.

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Edited November 27, 2023 by mzbe

[Guest]

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Multi-shot example (to expand on previous post):

Full frame, 96 Megapixel with SL2-S

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1:1 zoomed in

[PeterBoyadjian]

I use an extension tube from meke on my sl lenses. Works well. 

[dpitt]

For watch photography 1:1 is enough  IMO. Any larger magnification and all kinds of extra trouble start. With FF DOF at 1:1 is minimal and focus stacking may be needed. If you can buy a lens that does 1:1 out of the box, and is designed for this you are better of than with extension tubes and bellows on a 'normal' lens.

The cheapest solution I see is a Leica Macro Elmarit 60 F2.8 R. 2:1 out of the box, and 1:1 with the dedicated extender. With bellows it can reach 5:1 (did not try that myself). I mostly use it without extension on my SL. If I need more magnification, I use the TL2 (1.5x) which gives me the same DOF with 1.5x extra magnification. And yes I realize it is not really magnification, but I get 24MP of the subject that is 1.5 larger than the 24MP I get with my SL.

If you do not mind investing, I am very pleased with my Macro Elmar 90 F4.0 M lens.  It reaches 1:2 with the Leica Macro adapter, and is one of the sharpest lenses I own. It serves mostly for flowers and such + as a general very compact 90mm. Unlike most macro lenses it is also excellent at infinity.

 

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, jplotkin said:

And I want the light from the subject which is roughly 1 square inch to fill the sensor 1:1. From this can I compute the corresponding focal length (eg 105mm) for the lens without the use of tubes?

Macro lenses generally state their maximum magnification ratio. The key thing is working distance, and there's a simple calculation for that. Lenses are equidistant from the sensor and subject at 1:1. For instance, a 100mm lens will be 100mm from the subject at 1:1, and 100mm from the sensor, relative to the infinity position. Some of that is taken-up by the lens itself, so you'll have less space to work with for lighting.

Many "internal focus" macro lenses actually zoom-out at higher magnifications, so a 100mm lens (at infinity) might only be 70mm at 1:1. In that case, your working distance will be shorter than 70mm.

Lenses with a 1:2 maximum magnification need 1/2 of their focal length in extension to reach 1:1. Many manual focus 55mm macro lenses had optional 27mm extension tubes to reach 1:1. The Macro-Elmarit-R 60/2.8 often came with a dedicated extension tube, which would have been 30mm.

The important thing is to work-out how much working distance you need for lighting, and use that number as the minimum focal length that will work with your setup.

By the way, there's nothing special about 1:1. That ratio was important in the days of slide copiers, but it's just a magnification ratio for other subjects. In your case, watches often have crown dimensions of 40mm or more, so you can use a lower ratio. That will give you more working space.

17 hours ago, hepcat said:

Unfortunately, that's not an option for you with the Leica cameras as the MC-21 doesn't work with them. 

Sigma's EOS adapter works with the SL-2 and SL2-s, but not with the 2015 SL. Novoflex made an EOS adapter for the SL, which is only available second-hand.

[hepcat]

20 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Sigma's EOS adapter works with the SL-2 and SL2-s, but not with the 2015 SL. 

I stand corrected!  Thank you.  I didn't realize that Sigma had updated their compatibility chart.  That certainly opens some really good options for SL2 and SL2-s owners!

[chris_tribble]

Well - for £69 the Fotodiox x2 adapter is a VERY practical and inexpensive option for occassional macro.  The AF works well on L lenses and it's good with M lenses via adapter.  Some hand held examples below.  This solves my needs - and even picks up the EXIF data.  Still at the begining of a learning curve with this set up, and I've not tried the APO lenses yet.  For the moment it looks as if the 24-90 is going to be the most useful option.  😊

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[chris_tribble]

A few more test results - and I should say that of course the adapter I'm using is the Fotodiox 35mm adapter.  I wasn't able to get hold of the 15mm version in the UK - if anyone knows where to buy I'd be interested to hear,  Looking at the results, it still looks as if the V-E 24-90 is the most useful lens - though I was interested to see how the close focus M Summilux 50 Close Focus stacked up.  For interest I include an example of the closest focus you can get with that lens alongside the image with the 35mm extender.  All of these were hand-held, and I reckon the M lenses will do better on a tripod.  The IBIS + Lens stabilisation on the 24-90 make life a lot easier.

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[chris_tribble]

And if you're curious to see how it looks on the SL2, see below:

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