J. Lizar Glasgow engraving on back of 1936 ii top cover

[Skota]

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Hi Folks,

I saw this engraving on the back of a ii and was curious if anyone know's why. I looked up the name and it was a camera company in the 1830's but why would it be engraved on a Leica in the 1930's?

Thank you,

Steve

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Edited October 31, 2023 by andybarton
Typos corrected

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[andybarton]

They may have still been in the business of selling cameras and this might have been a "loaner" or a "demo". Interesting story here somewhere, though.

[beoon]

J. Lizars was founded in 1830 by optician James Lizars (1810-1879).

They sold Leica cameras in the 1930's and commonly engraved their name on the cameras as did Leica dealers in England and Ireland.

They are still in existence to this day in Glasgow as opticians only and have merged with another company.

Now called Black & Lizars

Your black paint Leica II serial number 199702 was part of a batch of 200 cameras (199601 - 199800) produced in 1936

Regards

Alan

[pgk]

I've seen a few Lizars engraved Leica's appear on the auction site and from dealers. I think that if you search you may find a thread on engraved Leicas and in the past some dealers/distributers seem to have been keen to make their role in selling such a camera permanent with engravings, stickers or bedges fixed to the cameras they sold. In the early day's of photography it was not uncommon for dealers/distributers to engrave their names on lenses and cameras and some even added their own serial number even on used lenses! I rather like the idea as it provides some history and context for a camera/lens; I have a number of Victorian lenses engraved with the London dealer's name.

[willeica]

2 hours ago, pgk said:

I've seen a few Lizars engraved Leica's appear on the auction site and from dealers. I think that if you search you may find a thread on engraved Leicas and in the past some dealers/distributers seem to have been keen to make their role in selling such a camera permanent with engravings, stickers or bedges fixed to the cameras they sold. In the early day's of photography it was not uncommon for dealers/distributers to engrave their names on lenses and cameras and some even added their own serial number even on used lenses! I rather like the idea as it provides some history and context for a camera/lens; I have a number of Victorian lenses engraved with the London dealer's name.

Lizars often put their plate on cameras such as this (probably Italian made) Falling Plate 'Detective' camera, which is in my collection. I bought it because of the Belfast connection. I actually found a developed glass plate in this one showing a house decorated for the 25th anniversary of King George V in 1935. 

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Lizars also produced their own Challenge line of cameras such as this one which I came across recently in a camera collection which I am cataloguing. It is one of the later models with a Bausch and Lomb type shutter; earlier ones have Thornton Pickard shutters. Unfortunately, as the second photo shows, the camera has suffered some damage, but the shutter is actually working.

William 

[pippy]

Lizars were also the main outlet for Leica cameras and binoculars with notable premises in Shandwick Place, Edinburgh, until at least the mid 1980's. They were (and remain?) a VERY highly respected firm. To own a camera which has the company name engraved upon it is interesting in an historical sense in much the same way that, for example, 'Tiranty' engraved (Parisian) Leicas attract more attention than more traditional fare.

Philip.

Edited November 1, 2023 by pippy

[PG Black nickel]

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another example of a beautiful Lizars camera.

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[Skota]

Fantastic information and the wealth of knowledge here is very impressive. Thank you for contributing and having this community available. 

[scotjack]

J Lizars used to have a branch at Shandwick Place in Edinburgh. Their whole window display was for Leica products.  I use to work almost directly opposite them in the Maitland Hotel.
They had at least one technician who serviced and repaired Leica cameras and binoculars exclusively. In Scotland, back in the 60s and 70s, "Lizars" was synonymous with Leica. (I actually believed at one time, incorrectly, that they were part of Leica.)

It was there that my Leica was converted for flash and many years later, I took in my Leica Trinovids for repair.   I had stupidly placed them on the roof of my car and then driven off, resulting in me seeing them, in my rearview mirror, bouncing on the road!  The alignment was of course a long way off and a fine spring structure inside one of the movable eye cups was hanging out, plus the rubber coating was scratched and torn.  They looked like a lost cause but the technician said to leave them and he would see what he could do.
About three weeks later, I got a call to go back to pick them up and apart from a small scuff on one eye-cup, they looked and performed as new!!  He said it would have been quicker but he had to send for some parts.       
And the best part is - there was no charge!  We could not believe it.   I still have those Trinovids and they still outperform nearly all of my friends binoculars.
Here's a picture of the Leica conversion.   I am sure for some purists this spoils this classic, but since it is rare, it might make it collectable for some others. It worked well but I had to choose a slower shutter speed or lose part of the frame.  

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[roydonian]

On 11/1/2023 at 12:43 AM, pippy said:

Lizars were also the main outlet for Leica cameras and binoculars with notable premises in Shandwick Place, Edinburgh

I grew up in Edinburgh, and remember them well. There was another camera dealer almost directly opposite, with a name that began with a 'W'.  Watsons or Watersons perhaps?  I can recall buying a box of Ilford HPS plates from them some time around 1962/3, but don't think I ever bought anything from Lizars. I bought my first camera from a photo dealer in Lothian Road (Edinburgh Camera Centre?), and used to buy my films at Nathans in Leith Street.

 

[convexferret]

@roydonian Edinburgh Cameras in Lothian Road. I worked for them while at Uni in the late 90s when they were in a bit of a death spiral due to questionable management. G.D. Young in Morrison Street might have been around then too.

[scotjack]

On 8/22/2025 at 5:39 PM, convexferret said:

@roydonian Edinburgh Cameras in Lothian Road. I worked for them while at Uni in the late 90s when they were in a bit of a death spiral due to questionable management. G.D. Young in Morrison Street might have been around then too.

Every time I returned to Edinburgh on the '90s and early 2000s, the number of camera dealers was always less than on my previous visit.  My last purchase may actually have been a Leica lens from Youngs in Morrison street, or possibly the very small camera dealer on Gorgie Road. (Or perhaps Dalry Road?)  He had a fabulous collection of Leicas.  There was also a good shop with a vast collection of s/h cameras, but very few Leicas, on Morningside road.  Are any of them still in business?

[willeica]

http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/companies2.html#lizars

 

William

[FrozenInTime]

4 hours ago, scotjack said:

Every time I returned to Edinburgh on the '90s and early 2000s, the number of camera dealers was always less than on my previous visit.  My last purchase may actually have been a Leica lens from Youngs in Morrison street, or possibly the very small camera dealer on Gorgie Road. (Or perhaps Dalry Road?)  He had a fabulous collection of Leicas.  There was also a good shop with a vast collection of s/h cameras, but very few Leicas, on Morningside road.  Are any of them still in business?

Yes, Cameratiks are still going in Morningside.https://www.cameratiks.co.uk/

Edinburgh Cameras* on Lothian Road ( former Leica dealership - with quite the Leica collection hidden away on the top floor office ), also Clark Street, before a last gasp stand in Morningside  ( * @convexferret I also worked there while a student in the '80s ). 

Now all long gone, along with Lizars, Youngs, Elena Mae and Jessops. Other names from Edinburgh's photographic past are HA. West, JS. Mars and Eastern Photocolour. The decline of film supply, processing and printing killed them all - no margins with digital and the rise of on-line sales.

Mainstream option is now Wex with their new consumer friendly location next to the McDonald Road tram stop. ( long ago was Pelling and Cross then KJP ). .

Edited September 21 by FrozenInTime

[convexferret]

8 hours ago, scotjack said:

Every time I returned to Edinburgh on the '90s and early 2000s, the number of camera dealers was always less than on my previous visit.  My last purchase may actually have been a Leica lens from Youngs in Morrison street, or possibly the very small camera dealer on Gorgie Road. (Or perhaps Dalry Road?)  He had a fabulous collection of Leicas.  There was also a good shop with a vast collection of s/h cameras, but very few Leicas, on Morningside road.  Are any of them still in business?

The very small dealer on Gorgie road was probably Steven Parry Donald - a wedding photographer with a set of second hand shelves behind the counter. His dad owned the shop before him and the business is still running I believe. I worked there the year before I went to Edinburgh Cameras and bought my first Leica, an M4-2, 50mm rigid Summicron and 35mm v1 Summicron there. Looking back the 35mm has gone up a magnitude in value (it cost me 300 pounds as an employee from memory).

[lmans]

Many of these cameras had brass plates tacked to the back of the camera....these represented studios or the store in which the camera was bought. It is akin to car dealers now who might put their name on a license plate cover etc..... But in those days they did it with brass plates. Today we wouldn't stand for it but now we just embrace it as part of the history of that camera.

I know my Leica 11 has a brass plate from a dealer in Berlin. I had a fun time researching it and back tracking the history where I could. Only adds to the fun of shooting it 🙂