CL and adapted R lenses….In need of your set up advice use…..basic stuff please!! 😀

[davidrc]

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CL camera in manual mode. I have my adapter here now and my R 50mm f2 summicrom, non rom, out on the table for staters.  (35mm, 90mm aside)

Mounted, in use, should I be able to see the exposure indictor -0- move at all ?

i have achieved correct exposures, more by experience than technique !

i think I need a pointer to a set up and use guide perhaps?

 

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[davidrc]

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I have actually got auto iso on….R50mm f4, so able to zoom in focus on the gates. And set a reasonable 1/60th speed.

exposure seems to have sorted itself out (I love centre weighted on this camera)

minimal LR post required…though 40% sharpening was needed. (Just for 100% use…no halos introduced at all) 

at f4 focus on gates, infinite is not sharp.  Probably drops off somewhere in the garden behind the house.

50mm to…..FOV, 75….expected DOF ??

colour?  Actually really true to the scene….no (Fuji) effort at all…..I think I have found my digital home.

comments and help appreciated to do better or easier……

Edited October 5, 2023 by davidrc
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[dpitt]

You can download the latest manual from Leica. But if it is anything like the TL2 manual, it will not reflect the current firmware very accurately. I do not have a CL (just a TL2 with EVF), but I can start with some general pointers:

1. If you do not use a native Leica adapter some functions like IBIS might not be available. You can chose the profile for your lens, but EXIF files will not have the lens info.
2. R lenses can only be used in A mode. So you set the camera to A mode and you set the desired f stop on the lens. Then the light meter will calculate and use the correct shutter time for the scene. Exposure compensation can be used to fine tune. And of course Auto ISO can be set when needed to keep shutter times above a given limit. M mode works but makes not much sense because you have to set the aperture in the camera to the same setting as on the lens, otherwise your exposure will be wrong.
   I often point at the main subject, focus and do exposure lock before re framing and shooting.
3. Only ROM lenses will not transfer info about used diaphragm and used FL (with ROM zoom lenses), but only on Leica native adapters. Your non ROM lens does not transfer any info, so the EXIF info will not contain the F stop used. (I use a Keyword in PP for the lens name and aperture where needed)
4. You will find that focus peaking works but is not accurate to show critical focus. I always use magnification focus aid. Configure your CL so that you can bring it up easily, focus and then re frame. When working on a tripod, you can open the lens fully, focus and then stop down to get the most accurate focus. In normal situations I just use the f-stop that I need to focus with. That works fine up to F8 or so.

In general you will find that vintage lenses benefit from a little bit of extra contrast in PP. R lenses can produce stunning results when they are in good condition, and they are very compact and light compared to most L lenses sold today. I think the Summicron 50 R is a very good lens to start with, but the 35mm is probably more alround on the CL.

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by dpitt

[davidrc]

Thanks very much Dirk, some good pointers. I only got the CL on Monday, so still exporing the road map! 😉

I hadn’t thought about A mode.

fortunately my 3 R lenses are pretty much mint.

I am so used to overblown Fuji colours and perceived rather than accurate sharpness. 

It’s like going back to transparencies. K64. 😀 

or Fuji Astia.

 

[dpitt]

Summicron's where designed by Leica to be used wide open. They will improve a bit at F2.8, but not so much that you really need to stop them down. And they reach maximum performance already at F4.0. Focusing is more critical wide open, but it is not hard when you use maginification.

The Summicron 50 R v2 is IMO as good as the renowned Summicron 50 M v5 which was nominated best FF 50mm in the world until Leica released  the APO Summicron 50mm lenses for M and SL. Their rendering is in between vintage and modern look, and they leave little to be desired in the IQ department.

If your 90mm is a Summicron 90, it is one of the nicest portrait lenses that I have ever used.
This was done with Leica SL + 90mm Summicron

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[davidrc]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:33 AM, dpitt said:

Summicron's where designed by Leica to be used wide open. They will improve a bit at F2.8, but not so much that you really need to stop them down. And they reach maximum performance already at F4.0. Focusing is more critical wide open, but it is not hard when you use maginification.

The Summicron 50 R v2 is IMO as good as the renowned Summicron 50 M v5 which was nominated best FF 50mm in the world until Leica released  the APO Summicron 50mm lenses for M and SL. Their rendering is in between vintage and modern look, and they leave little to be desired in the IQ department.

If your 90mm is a Summicron 90, it is one of the nicest portrait lenses that I have ever used.
This was done with Leica SL + 90mm Summicron

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Thanks.  That is a rather nice shot. 👍

I have used (not used now) a R6 since the late 90’s.  The 50 lens is the last they made before going ROM.

so, about the same time.  I had forgotten all about how the summicrons were designed….what you forget eh?

The other two are elmarits, much older and 3 cam. “Leitz”.  35 and 90.
I took the same shot with the 90 and you cannot split a hair between them for colour.  The 90 may not be quite as sharp (this use) but soon sorted.  Only seen by 100%.

I was pleased by the stability of the 90.  Balance was good and only really shook when on the top zoom in.

I am quite amazed though.  I haven’t tried the 35mm.  From what I know wides may not respond well to adapters?

I think having the L 23mm and the 50 as a short tele will suit me just fine.

so far, so good.

David

[davidrc]

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On 10/5/2023 at 11:33 AM, dpitt said:

Summicron's where designed by Leica to be used wide open. They will improve a bit at F2.8, but not so much that you really need to stop them down. And they reach maximum performance already at F4.0. Focusing is more critical wide open, but it is not hard when you use maginification.

The Summicron 50 R v2 is IMO as good as the renowned Summicron 50 M v5 which was nominated best FF 50mm in the world until Leica released  the APO Summicron 50mm lenses for M and SL. Their rendering is in between vintage and modern look, and they leave little to be desired in the IQ department.

If your 90mm is a Summicron 90, it is one of the nicest portrait lenses that I have ever used.
This was done with Leica SL + 90mm Summicron

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

* I actually am going to use the CL for landscapes.  I find the manual focussing very easy on it, and the auto too.

what I don’t seem to fathom is how to use the auto focus as a back button via the FN, and keep it set until reset. To keep the camera from refocussing after each shot.

I appreciate all the camaraderie and interchange of the site, so useful.

David 

[dpitt]

16 minutes ago, davidrc said:

I am quite amazed though.  I haven’t tried the 35mm.  From what I know wides may not respond well to adapters?

Some wide M lenses are hard to use on sensors that are not made for them. Even then, M lenses from 28mm on are fine in my experience. One of my favorites on the TL2 is the Summicron 35 M. Some of the 21mm M lenses work fine but others - the ones that enter the mount most - have pink corners and vignetting issues.

Leica R lenses in general are much easier becuase they use retrofocus design where needed. I think all R wide lenses are fine on the CL/TL. The cropped sensor limits potential issues.

[davidrc]

11 hours ago, dpitt said:

Some wide M lenses are hard to use on sensors that are not made for them. Even then, M lenses from 28mm on are fine in my experience. One of my favorites on the TL2 is the Summicron 35 M. Some of the 21mm M lenses work fine but others - the ones that enter the mount most - have pink corners and vignetting issues.

Leica R lenses in general are much easier becuase they use retrofocus design where needed. I think all R wide lenses are fine on the CL/TL. The cropped sensor limits potential issues.

I will try the 35mm then.  It has a slightly stiffer focus, so was a bit hesitant.  I think it needs a CLA.

Given that then, a 35 R should be fine.  I must admit, the M’s appeal.  In the shop I was shown a mk1 and 2 tri elmarit. 28, 35, 50.

i did not take note of the FOV.  What would it be?  Be just the same as the R’s?

They were around the £3,000 price, so a little daunting.  But so nice on the CL.  I did wonder, since they like the R are intended for full frame.  As you say, mostly a benefit.

the 35L and R’s on the CL are giving results which are visually and optically superior to the Fuji and lenses I have.

[dpitt]

1 hour ago, davidrc said:

I will try the 35mm then.  It has a slightly stiffer focus, so was a bit hesitant.  I think it needs a CLA.

Given that then, a 35 R should be fine.  I must admit, the M’s appeal.  In the shop I was shown a mk1 and 2 tri elmarit. 28, 35, 50.

i did not take note of the FOV.  What would it be?  Be just the same as the R’s?

They were around the £3,000 price, so a little daunting.  But so nice on the CL.  I did wonder, since they like the R are intended for full frame.  As you say, mostly a benefit.

the 35L and R’s on the CL are giving results which are visually and optically superior to the Fuji and lenses I have.

The 35 mm M lenses have the same FOV as the R lenses. Any FF 35 mm lens has the same FOV on the CL, with the crop factor it is 50mm eq.

The R lenses from the 70s till the end of the R system where developed and produced with the same care as the M lenses. Some R lenses were made by Minolta, but with strict quality control by Leica. They all had to make the Leica grade... Leica priced them the same or even more expensive as the M counterpart. In my experience they are just as good as the M lenses of the same period. Of course the M lenses are smaller, and they have evolved in the last 20 years after Leica abandoned the R system. Because R lenses could be made larger and wider, it was easier to reach optimum IQ. Look at the SL APO range now. They use more glass to reach even higher resolution. R lenses look tiny compared to the L zooms and even the primes.

No wonder you like the results you get. I like them too, and I only use M lenses on my TL2 if I need to go smaller or lighter.

IMO, buying a new M lens (or expensive used one) just for the CL does not make much sense. If you have(or will have some day) an M body, I can see more use for them. And of course some of the M lenses make a nice small package like a Summicron 35 or Elmarit 28. The tri-Elmarit is very good, and it performs well on the CL, I suppose, but you would be better off with a 28-70 R zoom, or the current TL 18-56. I think both are lighter and about the same size, the first one is much cheaper and not far off in quality, and the latter is superior in IQ on the CL compared to the tri-Elmarit and goes wider. The thing is that you pay a premium for the extra effort Leica has to put in to make M lenses small and build in a very accurate RF focusing mechanism. Neither shows up in IQ. And because M lenses are the only option for M body owners, and they are more hyped (the vintage ones) they are more sought after. Supply and demand drives up the price even more.

I love shooting with a RF system, so do not get me wrong. If you think you will have an M soon, the investment totally makes sense. And since I already had a 28 Elmarit M and Summicron 35 M, I do use them on my TL2 in stead of my Leica R Summicron 35 or 28. The only reason that I do that is because they deliver the same performance in a smaller package.

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by dpitt

[davidrc]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:17 AM, dpitt said:

The 35 mm M lenses have the same FOV as the R lenses. Any FF 35 mm lens has the same FOV on the CL, with the crop factor it is 50mm eq.

The R lenses from the 70s till the end of the R system where developed and produced with the same care as the M lenses. Some R lenses were made by Minolta, but with strict quality control by Leica. They all had to make the Leica grade... Leica priced them the same or even more expensive as the M counterpart. In my experience they are just as good as the M lenses of the same period. Of course the M lenses are smaller, and they have evolved in the last 20 years after Leica abandoned the R system. Because R lenses could be made larger and wider, it was easier to reach optimum IQ. Look at the SL APO range now. They use more glass to reach even higher resolution. R lenses look tiny compared to the L zooms and even the primes.

No wonder you like the results you get. I like them too, and I only use M lenses on my TL2 if I need to go smaller or lighter.

IMO, buying a new M lens (or expensive used one) just for the CL does not make much sense. If you have(or will have some day) an M body, I can see more use for them. And of course some of the M lenses make a nice small package like a Summicron 35 or Elmarit 28. The tri-Elmarit is very good, and it performs well on the CL, I suppose, but you would be better off with a 28-70 R zoom, or the current TL 18-56. I think both are lighter and about the same size, the first one is much cheaper and not far off in quality, and the latter is superior in IQ on the CL compared to the tri-Elmarit and goes wider. The thing is that you pay a premium for the extra effort Leica has to put in to make M lenses small and build in a very accurate RF focusing mechanism. Neither shows up in IQ. And because M lenses are the only option for M body owners, and they are more hyped (the vintage ones) they are more sought after. Supply and demand drives up the price even more.

I love shooting with a RF system, so do not get me wrong. If you think you will have an M soon, the investment totally makes sense. And since I already had a 28 Elmarit M and Summicron 35 M, I do use them on my TL2 in stead of my Leica R Summicron 35 or 28. The only reason that I do that is because they deliver the same performance in a smaller package.

 

Just catching up, I don’t seem to get notifications when people reply.

A informative reply, my thanks. I agree…it is the size of M lenses which attracts only.

what I like so far is that the IQ from my TL23mm, 18-56mm, are not far behind using my R lenses on my CL.

The outlay so far is not inconsiderable even for used item. Thankfully, majority of Leica gear is well looked after.

it is all a joy to use.