Leica M11 White Balance and it's relationship to metering?

[Photoworks]

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14 minutes ago, don daniel said:

Absolutely! As soon as the white balance is corrected, the M11 delivers the truest colors of all M bodies to date. Which doesn't mean that everyone has to like it. But I find it problematic that the lovers of rather special color tastes obviously set the tone at Leica and also here in the forum. Couldn't we agree that a camera should deliver the most natural and realistic color reproduction possible? All special tastes can be quickly achieved in post-processing with just a few clicks on filters. With the M11, however, I have to go the other way around: The result delivered by the camera, whether DNG or JPG, forces me to readjust every image. I can't solve this with a preset either. In Lightroom, for example, I can only save temperature and tint together as a preset.  However, the temperature of the automatic white balance rarely bothers me, but I nearly always find the tint wrong. If I work with a fixed white balance (sunny, cloudy, etc.), then both values are actually never correct: neither temperature nor tint. If I could split the white balance in the preset (temperature automatically and tint as a fixed value at +10), then I could proceed with less effort and would then only have to adjust the tint in artificial light. But even that would be completely unnecessary if Leica were to improve the tuning of the white balance. 

I only have seen one picture of yours where you say it is to agents. In software, readouts show you had a RED surplus.
I didn't see any information on how the camera was set up. But I don't get the cast often, more like rare.

I find that in most cases the colors are accurate, I use AW.

In your image, there is the presence of mixed lighting and to me setting the camera to daylight is incorrect. This would be the case for a color meter.

Other cameras probably will have read it differently. Different brands give you an interpretation of what is pleasing to the target viewer. Some even allow you to set temperature and tint, maybe this is something you can request!
I do studio shoots where color reproduction is important. Every light gets read and filtered. I have been using Canon Sony and fuji. In the end, I got the best color results out of the Leica SL.

My suggestion would be to try AW and see if you get a greater amount of keepers.

 

[ksrhee]

I just came across this since I had a similar experience with my Leica 11P.  I took some pictures under the warm LED light, and the colors all turned out wrong.   I took the same picture with my Q3, and the colors were more accurate.  I initially thought the exposure difference, but I quickly realized the culprit was white balance. Both cameras were in the AWB mode.  I should start using the manual WB to be sure moving forward.  What's annoying was that the Q3 works fine, but not my 11P.  

[otto.f]

The pity is that a respected reviewer like Sean Reid has downplayed the color problem of the M11 in comparison with the M10-R. But in my memory this problem has been communicated and even demonstrated often enough that members could have seen or smelt the smoke.

[jaapv]

19 hours ago, ksrhee said:

I just came across this since I had a similar experience with my Leica 11P.  I took some pictures under the warm LED light, and the colors all turned out wrong.   I took the same picture with my Q3, and the colors were more accurate.  I initially thought the exposure difference, but I quickly realized the culprit was white balance. Both cameras were in the AWB mode.  I should start using the manual WB to be sure moving forward.  What's annoying was that the Q3 works fine, but not my 11P.  

Under LED light it is always advisable to use Grey Card white balance as a starting point for processing. The AWB of all cameras struggles more or less with the discontinuous spectrum of LEDs which gives rise to unpredictable results. 

[ksrhee]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Under LED light it is always advisable to use Grey Card white balance as a starting point for processing. The AWB of all cameras struggles more or less with the discontinuous spectrum of LEDs which gives rise to unpredictable results. 

Never had issues with my other cameras in the past.   So, just to make sure I took more photos in the same condition with my other cameras, and none of the cameras had the issue that I saw with the M11-Fuji XT5, Leica Q3, Nikon D850, Panasonic.  Only M11. . .

[jaapv]

It may be something personal, but I nearly always have to tweak the AWB in postprocessing for images that matter.

[ksrhee]

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I hear you.  I have fine tuned the temperature on occasion, especially important photos, but there is something fishy going on in the state of Denmark in this case.  

[kiwidad]

On 10/4/2023 at 4:27 AM, hmzimelka said:

Mine is set to custom WB off a grey card, metered off mid-day sun. This pretty much eliminated any magenta bias too. AWB and Multi-Field metering was not reliable or predictable enough for me.

This caught my attention. I find that especially under artificial light (and to me the dirty word LED) using the grey card setting make a tremendous difference.  I can't say in natural light it's been necessary but definitely LED. Thinking out loud I wonder if its got to do with how LED isn't a constant on light source so the AWB is picking up things our eyes cannot see.

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, kiwidad said:

AWB is picking up things our eyes cannot see.

Things that happen too fast for our eyes to see.
Plus LEDs have a discontinuous spectrum which the AWB embedded in our brains compensates for - unlike a camera.