Q3 Software vs Hardware Criticisms?

[Le Chef]

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I’m still seeing a fair amount of criticism towards the Q3 and wonder how many of them can be resolved with software/firmware changes vs hardware changes? I’m really interested in the former, as the latter likely won’t get addressed until the Q3M or Q4 materialize.

What do the software experts think?

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The biggest complaint I ever hear is they are difficult to get. Not sure software can fix that?

[Voxen]

Software in Leica cameras is well beyond hardware in terms of quality. 

Not saying that their developers are bad, but it looks like a ship with no captain to me.

Lack of some critical functions, some others almost useless, erratic logic in some behaviors. The list is long.

The worst thing to me is that even though customers are asking for improvements since the first Q, they just ignore them and keep doing what they want, even when that make no sense.

Two examples that come in my mind:

- no back button focus

- crop modes with white frames only when they could just magnify into the EVF for better composition

These are truly amazing cameras only crippled by the software.

 

[jaapv]

As to the second: This is Leica. The framelines are meant to match the mechanical ones on the M Magnification would lose the bit outside the frame. Agree or disagree, that has nothing to do with software ability. Both are design decisions that you happen too disagree with. 
Personally I never saw any need for back button focus, but then others seem to do. 

[Qwertynm]

instead of shouting your wishes into the void here on the internet just email them at app-feature@leica-camera.com with the subject: Leica FOTOS - Feature Request: Q3 or any other support email adress.

I still want to chime in on the rant and say the most annoying thing so far is how you have to change AF-settings. You can program a function button that just opens the menu. Why not have me switch between Eye/Face-AF and Spot or any other that I can set? Seems so obvious coming from other camera systems but apparently not for Leica...

[Voxen]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

The framelines are meant to match the mechanical ones on the M Magnification would lose the bit outside the frame.

This is exactly what I find very annoying. They bring to the table a modern camera with half retro ergonomics. Why? It doesn’t make any sense.

I’m not buying the Q3 to have a M experience.

Those who enjoy the old school M shooting can buy the M, with all its limits that are known and loved for years.

When the Q3 brings 8K video to the table (who needs that really?), eye detect AF, tilt screen and many modern features, why restricting users to follow the Leica old school way?  

I’m not asking for insane level of menu options, it is nice that the camera remains simple to operate, but it wouldn’t be that silly to implement a dozain of popular features that are lacking and are very easy to add. 

[bobtodrick]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

As to the second: This is Leica. The framelines are meant to match the mechanical ones on the M Magnification would lose the bit outside the frame. Agree or disagree, that has nothing to do with software ability. Both are design decisions that you happen too disagree with. 
Personally I never saw any need for back button focus, but then others seem to do. 

Totally agree.  The whole idea of the frame lines is that, like the M you can see your subject before it enters the frame and prepare for it…very useful in may situations.  I for one wouldn’t mind if even at 28mm this was possible.  I think this is a very intentional design feature.  And I have never missed back focus.

As someone else mentioned the biggest problem is getting one…and this has been a Q issue since day one, so there must be a heck of a lot of people who feel that Leica has done it right.

That’s the problem with forums, a few people complain and one gets the idea the product is bad.

Meanwhile thousands are out there happily using them.  As I’ve stated we are a dealer in Canada…sold more than a few Q3’s…not one complaint so far.

[jaapv]

39 minutes ago, Voxen said:

This is exactly what I find very annoying. They bring to the table a modern camera with half retro ergonomics. Why? It doesn’t make any sense.

I’m not buying the Q3 to have a M experience.

Those who enjoy the old school M shooting can buy the M, with all its limits that are known and loved for years.

When the Q3 brings 8K video to the table (who needs that really?), eye detect AF, tilt screen and many modern features, why restricting users to follow the Leica old school way?  

I’m not asking for insane level of menu options, it is nice that the camera remains simple to operate, but it wouldn’t be that silly to implement a dozain of popular features that are lacking and are very easy to add. 

Why this is? It is a Leica aimed at a photography concept. Not an all-singin’ all dancing’ button fest.  Sony provides those. 

[Miltz]

Having used every camera brand professionally except Sony(I won't even touch those), I can tell you this: Leica is way a head of everyone is in terms of ease of use and menus and overall functionality. There was so many things I had to swallow and get used to when I got my Nikon Z system, same with Olympus, let me not talk about Fuji. Perhaps Canon was the best overall from the bigger brands. Yes I agree about the crop frame lines, it's completely ridiculous that it doesn't zoom the crop. How does Leica expect people to compose at 75mm or 90mm? My point here is no camera brand is perfect as there are over 1 billion people on this planet and we all like and want different things. I don't know how many millions of photographers are on this planet who shoot pro cameras but I can image making a camera that will make everyone happy isn't easy. I feel that Leica comes close, why else are we buying a camera for $6,000? I will be emailing Leica about the crop modes with the email provided above and I hope it works. Perhaps everyone here can email them as well and maybe they will listen. 

[Voxen]

@Miltz : I mailed them about the crop mode back in 2018 when I got the Q and I was not the only one. I bet they received hundreds of mails about this and never changed it. Most likely will never happen.

The idea was not to replace white frames by crop live view, just to give the choice from menu settings. That’s really not hard to do and will not annoy anyone.

Same for back button focus BTW.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Voxen

[jaapv]

The point is of course that if you zoom in instead of providing framelines you cut off a part of the image that is still recorded. The crop you apply in the camera is no more than a suggestion, an illusion even as the full image is still there. 
On the M it is different. There the framelines indicate the actual FOV of the focal length. On the Q the focal length is always the same. You just crop. 

[adrianh]

Leica gave us a zoom in function, they are heavlily advertising this feature, some people even think they got 4 lenses included. The way they have implemented it, leads to the EVF being more or less unusable at 90mm. Every other brand can offer the zoom in feature showing correctly in the EVF, why can't Leica offer it (as an option)?  Sorry but taking 50 years old optical induced constraints and forcing them into a modern camera as the sole option is not something a company should be proud of.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by adrianh

[Miltz]

33 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The point is of course that if you zoom in instead of providing framelines you cut off a part of the image that is still recorded. The crop you apply in the camera is no more than a suggestion, an illusion even as the full image is still there. 
On the M it is different. There the framelines indicate the actual FOV of the focal length. On the Q the focal length is always the same. You just crop. 

You don’t think it’s possible to zoom in the crop and still have the full image in the RAW file? I think it is. And even in the worst case, the user should have the option to crop with zoom or without. 

[jaapv]

I don’t see the sense of the framelines at all. The way the camera is conceived is that you see a subject, make sure that it is somewhere within the FOV and crop and compose on your monitor. Who cares about a fictional focal length?  Well, actually I do see the selling point. They are to pull in M users. 
 

Before somebody starts about focal length and perspective. That particular red herring does not exist. Perspective is solely determined by subject/observer distance and nothing else. Cropping does not affect perspective. 

[SAronian]

On 10/1/2023 at 12:32 PM, Le Chef said:

I’m still seeing a fair amount of criticism towards the Q3 and wonder how many of them can be resolved with software/firmware changes vs hardware changes? I’m really interested in the former, as the latter likely won’t get addressed until the Q3M or Q4 materialize.

What do the software experts think?

I'm not a software expert, but Firmware 1.2 and 1.3 each fixed the several small issues I had with shooting on the Q3.

I did do a quick experiment shooting the same subjects using the Q3 and a friends OM1. The OM1 was really good at nailing white balance. Whereas the Q3 seems always just a little off. Using a calibrated profile in LrC has helped. But I could see Leica doing some tweaks either in-camera or in conjunction with Adobe for more consistent white balance.

[jaapv]

Colour matching between all  camera types and brands is always a hassle. Colour rendering is subjective, not an absolute. 

[Miltz]

8 hours ago, jaapv said:

Colour matching between all  camera types and brands is always a hassle. Colour rendering is subjective, not an absolute. 

I agree. I found it quite entertaining when every YouTube video was talking about Canon colors especially on skin tones, yet all 3 Canon cameras I owned had different colors and skin tones. There’s even a difference between the Nikon Z6 and Z6II. Z6 is more green tint, Z6II is more magenta tint and both use the same sensor. 

[georgechan]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:37 AM, Miltz said:

You don’t think it’s possible to zoom in the crop and still have the full image in the RAW file? I think it is. And even in the worst case, the user should have the option to crop with zoom or without. 

Totally agree with you. I shoot on both M cameras and Q3, and I have no complaints with the frame lines in my OVF on the M cameras, simply because the rangefinder is bright and "true to life". But the EVF on Q3 is another story. Some might argue that the EVF on Q3 is bright and clear enough but in my opinion it's notwhere close to the experience of M cameras and it makes composition difficult when you are in the "cropping mode". 

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[Miltz]

1 hour ago, georgechan said:

Totally agree with you. I shoot on both M cameras and Q3, and I have no complaints with the frame lines in my OVF on the M cameras, simply because the rangefinder is bright and "true to life". But the EVF on Q3 is another story. Some might argue that the EVF on Q3 is bright and clear enough but in my opinion it's notwhere close to the experience of M cameras and it makes composition difficult when you are in the "cropping mode". 

Correct. The only way I can use the frames is with the rear lcd and I can’t go past 50mm realistically. I hope Leica starts listening to the people who are buying their cameras. This one is pretty much universal. 

[nicci78]

Leica listening to their customers ? 🤣

Not going to happen. 🙃
They only listened zu die Wesssenlitchen Gott nach Wetzlar. 😈