My biggest M10-R frustration

[Winedemonium]

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...is the wake-up lag when I want to take a shot. The camera is on, I bring it to my eye quickly because I have seen a fleeting moment passing before me, I press the shutter 6 or 7 times and on the 7th or 8th it takes the shot... to the indecisive moment.

Now of course I know there is the mitigating technique of 'pumping' the shutter when approaching something that is anticipated. 2 or 3 seconds is valuable here, and when I bring the camera to my eye it is ready and I can take the shot when I want it. 

In contrast, my film MP is so satisfying in this regard. No anticipation for the sake of the camera is required. The shutter is as good as instantaneous. 

So, I have two questions - 

1. Other than pumping the shutter when anticipation is possible, is there anything else to be done (other than to leave it in live view)? 

2. I don't recall quite this level of lag in my M10-P, but perhaps I am just imagining that. Is the wake up time of the M10-R slower, in fact?

In all other respects I really love my M10-R, especially in its black paint livery. I don't really want the M11 (but never say never).

[newtoleica]

Switch sleep mode to off and carry more spare batteries.

it will always be awake then when it’s on.
 

do you have the sleep mode set to the longest (10min)?
 

Either of these makes the issue manageable IMHO.  

[charlesphoto99]

2 hours ago, Winedemonium said:

 I don't really want the M11 (but never say never).

The M11 is supposedly even slower wake up, though that might be somewhat offset by the bigger battery and leaving it set to on all the time. Wake up has always been the achilles heel of digital M's. 

[costa43]

I’ve also found this to be a little annoying. My CCD cameras were better in this regard. I keep mine at 10 minutes and carry a spare. I switch off all preview options and I tend not to use live view very often at all. Never gone through two batteries in a day.

[Winedemonium]

6 hours ago, newtoleica said:

Switch sleep mode to off and carry more spare batteries.

I had this set to 2 minutes, and hadn't realised this until I'd checked on your prompting. Thank you so much for that. Let's see if this makes a real difference. I'll report back, but I suspect it will. 

[Winedemonium]

Thanks to advice received here @newtoleica, @costa43, today I went out taking some pictures in Paris, with sleep mode switched off. 

I took about 60 pictures over a period of 3.5 hours on a fully charged battery, which was on 5% remaining when I finished. I was surprised by that fast rate of drain. I forgot to take a spare battery, but will definitely take one more (at least) next time. 

The really good news is that I found the camera as responsive as I could hope for, so I'm really happy with that. 

Thank you.

[Alberti]

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On 10/1/2023 at 4:09 PM, charlesphoto99 said:

... Wake up has always been the achilles heel of digital M's. 

My M9-Monochrome has a near to instantaneous wake-up. I do not know exactly the card (16GB?).

The M8 was fast too. The M240 depended heavily on the card. Large cards, long time to check the boot record or something totally not needed at that time.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Alberti

[Alberti]

Always on - if that is supplemented with the LED frameline lighting OFF when no eye is present, would that help?? Requires a viewer detection that is not triggered by a belly 😉

[newtoleica]

1 hour ago, Winedemonium said:

Thanks to advice received here @newtoleica, @costa43, today I went out taking some pictures in Paris, with sleep mode switched off. 

I took about 60 pictures over a period of 3.5 hours on a fully charged battery, which was on 5% remaining when I finished. I was surprised by that fast rate of drain. I forgot to take a spare battery, but will definitely take one more (at least) next time. 

The really good news is that I found the camera as responsive as I could hope for, so I'm really happy with that. 

Thank you.

I had a Sony RX1R M2 for a bit. That would get through three batteries in that kind of use…. So the Leica is ‘OK’ in my books! 

[Winedemonium]

17 minutes ago, newtoleica said:

I had a Sony RX1R M2 for a bit. That would get through three batteries in that kind of use…. So the Leica is ‘OK’ in my books! 

I had the RX1R mk1 back in the day. Yes, small batteries, and power hungry. Ate them like chewing gum! 

3.5 hour today - I'm happy with that. 2 batteries is enough. After that it's really me that needs re-charging! 

[otto.f]

Of course it depends on your work and what generally catches your eye, but I have thus far, in two years, hardly had a problem with having to wait for my M10-R to wake up. When I step into a context that will probably ask for action I put it on and leave it on till I leave the scene, which can be a whole afternoon with a 2min time for the camera to shut down. I have two batteries. So, it’s just anticipation I guess. I just have one question: are you very keen to shut your camera down after making a photo, or do you just leave it?

Edited October 2, 2023 by otto.f

[chris_tribble]

On 10/2/2023 at 5:59 PM, otto.f said:

Of course it depends on your work and what generally catches your eye, but I have thus far, in two years, hardly had a problem with having to wait for my M10-R to wake up. When I step into a context that will probably ask for action I put it on and leave it on till I leave the scene, which can be a whole afternoon with a 2min time for the camera to shut down. I have two batteries. So, it’s just anticipation I guess. I just have one question: are you very keen to shut your camera down after making a photo, or do you just leave it?

My experience is similar.  Auto 0ff 2 minutes, Auto Preview OFF, EVF OFF.  If I'm out for the day the camera's on all the time and it only needs a touch on the shutter button to wake the camera.  I may take a 100 shots or more, but still come back with the battery at 70%. The M11 was a different experience (another of my reasons to dislike it).  The M10-R is beginning to feel like my "forever" M" - something that mixes a sense of pleasure, given the long, expensive journey I've been on through all the iterations from the M8, and a sense of disappointment, as I may never have the anticipation of waiting for the next model!

Edited October 4, 2023 by chris_tribble

[Winedemonium]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:59 PM, otto.f said:

I just have one question: are you very keen to shut your camera down after making a photo, or do you just leave it?

If I'm out with the camera I want to be able take to react very fast to something fleeting, and to get the picture as fast as my reactions will allow. I walk with everything set up to a fairly high ISO, f/8, c3m zone focus, and if I see something momentary I try to grab it. If I see something static I like I will move back to a low ISO, choose the aperture I want, focus and frame and take the shot, and move on, re-setting the ISO to one that will give a fairly fast shutter speed, etc, back to f/8, and keep walking. 

What I have been finding - and the motivation for this post - was that I was getting what I wanted on my film MP, but missing on the M10-R because of the wake up time. 

And now, following the advice received here, my problem is solved. But it's clear I will need a fully charged camera, and a fully charged spare in my pocket. I'd rather live with that pfaff than miss something waiting for the camera to wake up.  It's not that I'm particularly fast, but I'm certainly faster than the wake up time from sleep mode. 

(FWIW I have auto preview off, and I'm not using an EVF.)

[Jeff S]

On 10/1/2023 at 7:50 AM, Winedemonium said:

The camera is on, I bring it to my eye quickly because I have seen a fleeting moment passing before me, I press the shutter 6 or 7 times and on the 7th or 8th it takes the shot... to the indecisive moment.

 

The missing action here is to tap the shutter half way the instant you see a pic, BEFORE raising the camera to your eye. In a photo-rich environment, do this within 2min minutes (if power savings set to 2 min) to keep camera awake. Just one press necessary. Camera should be ready by the time you have pic framed.  I carry a spare battery, but have never needed it in a full day shooting from full start.  Just need to develop the reflex/habit. 

Jeff

Edited October 5, 2023 by Jeff S

[Winedemonium]

5 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The missing action here is to tap the shutter half way the instant you see a pic, BEFORE raising the camera to your eye.

Good advice for sure. I already do this when I sense something might unfold. The missed shots came when I didn't anticipate, or couldn't have anticipated - that's where the film MP had the advantage. But that has now been evened up considerably by the advice received here in this thread. As of my last M10-R walkabout I'm very happy with the new set up.

Let me illustrate the difference. I'm not suggesting these are great photos, but they show the difference I'm talking about. In the first picture, of the two women with cigarettes, I saw them exit a door just to the right outside the frame. As they organised themselves I saw they were both about to smoke, and could preconceive a photo. I had probably 2 seconds from then until I passed them, so from sleep mode, priming the shutter before raising the camera to my eye would have been enough. In the second shot with the startled woman and the man on a bicycle, it happened much faster. I was walking behind her and I suddenly heard the bicycle bell ring. She was walking on the cycle lane and hadn't realised it. I caught the moment he swerved around her and she turned in shock. (Image cropped a little). Nothing amazing, but in this case I would not have had time to prime the shutter / wake up the camera - it was an instantaneous moment that required the lens set up for this zone of focus / depth of field, a suitable shutter speed, etc -- just frame and grab.

I don't know about you, but I can still remember "shots" from years ago that I didn't get because I failed to react in time. I was pleased to get this woman/bicycle shot. If I'd had the time to anticipate I could have composed it differently, but her sense of shock, and him passing, was fleeting. The camera had to be instantaneously ready.

So, as I've said, I'm now happy with the revised setting on my M10-R.

 

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