Loaded Question for M11 Owners

[bcaslis]

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31 minutes ago, algrove said:

Sorry for your problems. It can happen that when downloading a FW upgrade there is a glitch. A friend of mine had this happen when downloading his SL2S FW. He sent it in to Leica USA who reinstalled it and he has had no problems since. Might be worth a try in the UK.

Sorry but I have not seen any issues. Were you replying to someone else?

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[londond]

8 hours ago, bcaslis said:

I don't doubt that you are having issues, but I have the latest firmware installed (2.0.1) and have seen no issues so far.

Indeed…pretty much what I thought reading reports of  issues in earlier iterations. In some ways it exacerbates the issue - some universal bug would be rapidly diagnosed and fixed.

I’m sure that folks use digital Ms for different reasons, for some perhaps an IQ that’s unattainable elsewhere, or maybe to use lens collections built up over film years. For me however these problems suggested a shoddiness which was not was I buying, and the compromised user experience defeats the point of the camera. 

Bugs happen, the real test is how the company respond and fix. For me, the jury’s out….

[mattcheol]

I'm on the fence for this. My foray into Leica is probably more recent than many folks here, starting in 2020 with the purchase of an M4. I have no qualms with the M4 or my experience shooting Leica on film but this may make my Leica loyalty run a bit less deep.

I bought the M11 in 2022 and have had several problems with it and one of my more recent Leica lens purchase which makes me wonder about the brands current quality control.

Issue one is the screen on mine somehow developed some sort of spots, luckily just along one border and not so much in the middle, they look almost like little smudges except  under the glass. And my camera is actually quite lightly used and I can't for the life of me think of a time when it could have been physically damaged. 

Issue two is the metering. The metering drastically overexposes my images from time to time. I've seen similar instances documented on this forum with varying recommended solutions with varying degrees of success. None of the proposed tips helped me. My problem seems to only happen in dark situations and the metering system seems to attempt to make a dark scene magically a daylight scene and so instead of a naturally exposed night scene you get something like a 3-5 stops of overexposure. 

Issue three is the firmware instability. I've had freezes occur on just about every firmware. Usually these resolve with a turn off/on cycle. But sometimes upon restart the camera freezes again, sometimes with a scary loading wheel graphic that also freezes, making me fear that I somehow bricked the camera. Luckily this has resolved after displacing the battery and then restarting. On the last two firmware versions (Including the late October update) I started to have corrupt files of some sort where on playback the camera reads something to the tune of "This file cannot be read" This may be an SD card issue, but it occurred on a card that has not been heavily used and has not given problems in the past. This needs more investigation on my part before I fully blame the camera, but it happened with just the last two updates. 

Issue four is the general quality of the photos. This will always be subjective and also dependent on lens selection. But I feel Leica tends toward Magenta color shifts by default and this is really not my vibe. That said I shoot only raw and process all of my photos so at the end of the day, not a huge deal. But the other issue in regards to photo IQ is simply that I would never use my M11 over my Nikon Mirrorless for something important, say a friend asking for a simple engagement photo session. I understand other people use leica professionally and again YMMV. Unless you are shooting with the New Apo's, I think objectively, the newer higher end mirrorless lenses beat the leica lenses for sharpness. Whether you believe in the whole "leica character" thing I guess is up to you, I'm honestly up in the air about it... Auto focus is of course a large contributor in this. For me my hit rate with auto focus is better than my manual focus on a Leica RF, which is also btw worse than my hit rate with old manual focus SLR lenses. This is me though, and based on a photographers skill, I know that this point is also relative. But I would argue that even among the best RF shooters in the world, if you use Eye AF with a Canon/Sony DSLR you'll likely nail more shots faster than with an M11, and for me a much less experienced RF shooter, the difference would be even more pronounced. 

Issue five is not of the M11 specifically, but of a brand new 35 summilux close focus lens I bought straight from Leica America that came to me with, a focus range number painted sloppily... I don't know how else to describe it. The white paint looks like it was applied by hand with a white-out brush and it definitely bleeds outside the lines. Is this common??? I didn't realize it for a few months, then I was highly disappointed, somewhat angry, but now I've just accepted it but absolutely hold it against Leica. 

Cost is ofc another issue. but we all know this and bought it anyway so I don't think it's worth commenting on. 

So lastly, that leads to the good. Being a film shooter as well, I really do enjoy the legacy of Leica. I also don't mind manual focus, I just don't expect all my shots to be perfect. I enjoy the old school aesthetics. I travel a lot and enjoy the compactness. At the end of the day, you spend so much money not for the above mentioned issues, but for the brand aesthetics and most importantly the shooting experience. It remains a unique shooting experience in the digital photography realm. But is it for me? to be decided to be honest. A large part of me thinks I'd be more happy with Leica M's solely for film photography, and perhaps a Q3 for that sorta pseudo modern leica experience for when I want that. That said, I'm glad I bought it in this order, because although I might backtrack now, I'm pretty sure if I had a Q3 and not an M11 I would forever wonder.... and would eventually buy the M11 anyways. But now that I know, this may be my first and last foray into the world of Digital Leica M cameras. 

[Kiwimac]

I would certainly buy it again. 
 

Buying today I’d probably buy the P given the relatively small price difference but essentially they’re the same camera. 
 

I’ve found it very good. The electronic shutter is really useful to save messing about with filters on fast lenses. I hate filters. 
 

I do caution anyone who speaks to me about buying one that you really have to want to shoot the way they shoot and be comfortable without the raft of modern things most camera users take for granted these days. 
 

If you’re not going to be happy with no AF etc then don’t waste money on an M. Buy an SL. 
 

That might seem obvious, but it’s an expensive mistake to make and people do make it. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Kiwimac

[High_n_Dry]

Love mine. 

Originally had a M10 and over time gravitated toward AF cameras (including the SL2). Realized that I missed the RF and compact system of the M and purchased the M11.

It's a camera that I love traveling with and I love the output that the M11 produces.

Have I had freezes? Sure, about a dozen or so over the year. Do I care, not really. I just pop out the battery and it's good to go. Also, it has happened less with the new firmware updates. 

Compared to the M10, I think it's an upgrade- crazy great battery life, Visioflex 2 is great, internal storage, increase in pixels allows more flexibility with cropping, and electronic shutter. Plus the M glass is great.

[Guest]

On 9/10/2023 at 2:57 PM, lct said:

I seem to see two question in yours.
1. Would i buy a second M11 body in addition to my current one? No because i consider the M11 an interim camera. I then will keep my current M11 and save for an M12, assuming it has IBIS i consider indispensable on high res cameras.
2. Would i replace my M11 with another one in case of thieft or loss, yes immediately for the simple raison that it is my best M camera since the seventies and the mere idea to buy an M10 instead makes me smile with all due respect to M10 users. I am not a traditional M user in that i expect modern Ms to work in LV mode like mirrorless cameras and only the M11 can do that.
3. Freezes? Never got one since firmware 1.6.1 so it is a non issue for me.

 

Same here. Also - given my investment in M lenses, the M11 is the best current body to get the highest image quality from those.
It would be foolish not to invest in the best possible body, if you spend so much on that side of the equation (a multiple of the cost of the body)?