Q3 White Balance

[clasami]

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Seems to me that Daylight and AutoWB are a bit on the warm side? In camera JPEGs also have a yellow that leans toward green and is not as radiating as the yellow in LR or DXO. Related to this: How come that WB presets in LR and DxO are totally off with Q3 DNGs?

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[MindsEye]

23 hours ago, clasami said:

Seems to me that Daylight and AutoWB are a bit on the warm side? In camera JPEGs also have a yellow that leans toward green and is not as radiating as the yellow in LR or DXO. Related to this: How come that WB presets in LR and DxO are totally off with Q3 DNGs?

There are so many variables here that I and other forum members would need some more information to help out if that's what you're seeking:

1. Are you using a good quality, properly calibrated monitor? If so, calibrated to D65?

2. Which film simulation are you using on the Q3? STD, VIV, or NAT? Or perhaps one of the Leica looks that you may have downloaded to your Q3?

3. For WB presets in LR are you referring to As Shot? Daylight? Auto? custom or something else?

4. What kinds of subjects are giving you issues, and in what kind of lighting?

5. Can you provide some examples with specific settings and information (above)?

I haven't seen the issues you mention but in many cases, these things are subjective. Maybe with some examples and information we can figure out if there's a problem and simple fix or perhaps you just don't care for how the Q3 renders relative to other cameras you are using or used in the past.

Edited September 6, 2023 by MindsEye

[clasami]

Gerade eben schrieb MindsEye:

There are so many variables here that I and other forum members would need some more information to help out:

1. Are using a good quality, properly calibrated monitor? If so, calibrated to D65?

2. Which film simulation are you using on the Q3? STD, VIV, or NAT? Or perhaps one of the Leica looks that you may have downloaded to your Q3?

3. For WB presets in LR are you referring to As Shot? Daylight? Auto? custom or something else?

4. What kinds of subjects are giving you issues, and in what kind of lighting?

5. Can you provide some examples with specific settings and information (above)?

I haven't seen the issues you mention but in many cases, these things are subjective. Maybe with some examples and information we can figure out if there's a problem and simple fix or perhaps you just don't care for how the Q3 renders relative to other cameras you are using or used in the past.

1: Yes. NEX PA272W

2. STD

3. As shot. All else (Auto etc.) gives strange results. The temp value LR displays for DNGs in daylight is mostly between 7000 and 8000 (too high)

4. Normal landscape, basically anything.

5. Here is an example. LR indicates 7000.

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[clasami]

It is not so much help that I am looking for - color can be adjusted in post to match my taste. It is more something I noticed and I wonder, if others also feel that the WB is more on the warm side with the Q3. Will take a comparison shot tomorrow with the Q3, Q2 and the Sony a7IV.

[MindsEye]

2 hours ago, clasami said:

1: Yes. NEX PA272W

2. STD

3. As shot. All else (Auto etc.) gives strange results. The temp value LR displays for DNGs in daylight is mostly between 7000 and 8000 (too high)

4. Normal landscape, basically anything.

5. Here is an example. LR indicates 7000

Thanks for the information. I can't speak to the 7K or 8K color temp without a raw file but on my display (calibrated Eizo CS2740) using LR, ON1, and the OS viewer (Mac), the image looks good to me. Without the raw file I can't get a color temp readout. The white in the house is dead neutral reading with sample tool in both LR and ON1 (R 242, G 242, B 242.) The image looks nearly identical in all 3 cases. I'm not seeing anything I would call objectionable. Everything looks natural. Perhaps very slightly on the warm side but pleasing.

In theory the 7K readings sound off but looking at my own Q3 images, I am also getting low 7000s and they look great. I am going to shoot a test shot outdoors of the same scene on a tripod with both my Q3 and Fujiflm X-T5 (where I see more "normal" color temp readings in software) so I can see a more accurate comparison.

If you want to email me an original DNG and JPEG (assuming you have your camera set to shoot both) I'll take a look.

I'll report back on my tests.

[FusionX.Photo]

7 minutes ago, clasami said:

It is not so much help that I am looking for - color can be adjusted in post to match my taste. It is more something I noticed and I wonder, if others also feel that the WB is more on the warm side with the Q3. Will take a comparison shot tomorrow with the Q3, Q2 and the Sony a7IV.

It's not accurate in my opinion, one of the very few small niggles I have about the Q3, I often tweak it on the DNG's in LR or PS. 

Sony was no better though, my A7IV was miles off sometimes.

To date i've found Fuji to have the best auto WB.

[MindsEye]

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10 minutes ago, clasami said:

Will take a comparison shot tomorrow with the Q3, Q2 and the Sony a7IV.

Sounds like we're on the same page about tests. I think the numbers don't tell the whole story because there is a lot of color science underneath. The Q3 may be a bit warm but I don't find it displeasing nor does it give me a sense of inaccuracy

Is it noticeably different than your Q2? I haven't owned a Q2 before so I don't have that comparison. Do the other settings (NAT, VIV) also look too warm to you?

In the end it's just about the look you like. You may just not like the look of the Q3 images.

I'll be curious to see what you think after your test shots.

[MindsEye]

Update. I just did some tests shots with my Fuji X-T5 and my Q3. After seeing them side by side the Q3 is noticeably more warm out of the camera. I've been shooting mostly black and white with my Q3 so haven't really scrutinized this previously. So thanks for pointing it out. 

I also agree with @FusionX.Photo that Fujifilm's auto white balance is way better than Sony's. Having used both systems for professional work, the Fuji wins out, especially in difficult lighting. I also like having all the choices for film simulations though I only use a small number of those offered by Fujifillm. But this has no bearing on using the Leica.

Even with the warm color balance, I still really like my Q3. It's a joy to use and easy to take with me everywhere.

Regarding the personal taste aspect. All the years I shot color transparency film I often kept warming filters on my Canon lenses. I liked the look of the Zeiss lenses because they were warmer than Canon or Nikon. In the film days, lenses made a lot more difference in rendering, color balance, shadow/highlight detail, etc. and you could really see it with Leica/Leitz and Zeiss lenses. I really noticed it when I got my first Leica rangefinder in 1980. Perhaps I just got used to the warmer look and now prefer that. 

[elmars]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb clasami:

Will take a comparison shot tomorrow with the Q3, Q2 and the Sony a7IV.

Please report on it.

Toning (tint) plays an important role in white balance. With the M11, it is tuned much more toward magenta than with the Q3. I would like something in between. What about the Q2 and the Sony? Maybe take a photo with each camera with a fixed white balance (sunny). Then you can see the basic tuning well in my experience.

[Miltz]

So far I don’t have any issues with the Q3 white balance, as a matter of fact I prefer it to my Nikon Z6. I think the Q3 is the most realistic between the two cameras. Additionally I haven’t had to correct white balance in any of my images yet, with the Z6 I felt I was doing it with almost every image.

[clasami]

Two sample images Q2and  Q3 (a7IV next post) There was a slight difference in exposure which I equalized in LR.

WB to Daylight. Q3 renders warmer. But the sky is very diffreent, too.

First image Q3, second Q2.

 

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Edited September 7, 2023 by clasami

[clasami]

And here is the Sony a7IV image. On the cooler side. ISO was accidentally left @ 400.

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[Daniel C.1975]

Thanks for the comparison. And ones pain is an others benefit. With the Q2 and SL2s, I tend to develop my pictures in post most of the times more towards the warmer side, just slightly. 

I've not yet made comparison, but if the Q3 is already that little notch more on the warm side, I will welcome it. But that's me and my preference

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Daniel C.1975

[clasami]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Daniel C.1975:

Thanks for the comparison. And ones pain is an others benefit. With the Q2 and SL2s, I tend to develop my pictures in post most of the times more towards the warmer side, just slightly. 

I've not yet made comparison, but if the Q3 is already that little notch more on the warm side, I will welcome it. But that's me and my preference

 

Since I use RAW and edit every image anyway, WB is part of the routine. What I find more intersting, though, is how different the two cameras render the sky. Which one do you like more? Which one looks more natural? Doesn't the Q2 look more natural?

[Daniel C.1975]

Not yet finally concluded my findings, which one I prefer. My first impression was that the Q3 looks a bit more natural. But the majority of the photos so far where taken under artificial light at higher ISOs. So, no final opinion yet.

[elmars]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb clasami:

WB to Daylight.

Can You pleas tell us the values for color temperature and tint in Lightroom for each camera?

[clasami]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb elmars:

Can You pleas tell us the values for color temperature and tint in Lightroom for each camera?

Q3: 7050 +49; a7IV: 5250 +14; Q2: 5350 +25

[elmars]

These are strange values for the Q3. I would have expected a much clearer difference to the Q2 and the Sony with these values.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[clasami]

vor einer Stunde schrieb elmars:

These are strange values for the Q3. I would have expected a much clearer difference to the Q2 and the Sony with these values.

DxO PL6 returns the 4123 +75 for the Q3, and 5509 +2 for the same images. In fact, the Q3 always returns values between 7000 and 8000 in LR in daylight settings.

Edited September 7, 2023 by clasami

[clasami]

Way too warm using daylight. Here are two JPEGs (with iDR), one AWB, one Daylight. Leica needs to look at their WB settings again. OOC JPEGs, downsized in LR.

 

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Edited September 13, 2023 by clasami