Q2 Monochrom-Does RAW matter vs JPEG with Monochrome only cameras

[ChuckNonverbal]

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I have been a purely RAW shooter for years and understand the advantage of RAW with color files, but it seems less critical with monochrome.

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Chuck

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[LCM94]

I remember reading somewhere or viewing one of their video about this topic. Check this forum it’s a lot of useful info. 
https://www.reddotforum.com/

Edited August 31, 2023 by LCM94

[Anakronox]

It’s still just as critical if you want to control how your output looks.  Dynamic range can be crushed by jpeg compression. 

[sfbaron]

I just got my first Leica camera, the Q2 Monochrom. I have always just saved my images in JPEG as opposed to RAW. With the Q2 mono, would the camera be underserved by just saving in JPEG as opposed to DNG format? It seems like the main advantage of saving in DNG for improved dynamic range for post processing. However, I don't plan to post process and want to minimize file size. I always just import JPEGs into Apple photos for viewing. Thanks.

[jaapv]

A question:  Why are you paying a not inconsiderable amount of money for a camera and then throw away half the quality? You would get the same results or maybe better by getting one at less than a third of the price. There is much, much more to DNG than dynamic range. Having said that, what I have seen of Q2 jpgs, they are quite decent. 

[pcgarner]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:04 PM, Anakronox said:

It’s still just as critical if you want to control how your output looks.  Dynamic range can be crushed by jpeg compression. 

The RAW files are simply superb, out-imaging film w/o exception. That's what you're paying for. If you opt for JPEG you may as well shoot any camera that sells for 2/3s of the price. But why do that?

[jaapv]

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If you have to start the postprocessing learning curve, I recommend ON1 and Silver Efex Pro. 

[Pelu2010]

Well I would recommend: 

you spend a lot of money for a camera. 
Guess what good photographers do every year! 
they book a course. 
or two ….

one for the equipment part > camera, light , lenses > new stuff > computer etc.

 

 And one for ideas 💡 

shere you work with a mentor and you work on your weak points. 
 

And one tip: 

we won’t go back. > take a computer photoshop course. 
this helps you with so many things …. 
 

I fought so many years against it, but it’s unbeatable. 
 

I am now able to develop images that I could not print. 
 

learning is gold , 

 

cheers 

[sfbaron]

Thanks for the feedback.

So in addition to more dynamic range, the DNG files also retain more detail than JPEG?

Let me experiment with the raw DNG files. What is the best platform to use to to view the DNG files, perhaps some minor post-processing, and save the files in the cloud?

[jaapv]

As I said. For a beginner ON1. User friendly interface and loads of tutorials on their site. 

[jaapv]

There is just one more thing: make sure that you have a good monitor on your computer. It does not need to be a high-end-break-the-bank one for B&W. I would recommend the Benq SW 240 as a good starter. It can even be switched to B&W. 

[thegobi]

Even when using cameras that produce beautiful monochrome JPEGs (like the GR or Pen- F) I also keep the RAW files - it’s like keeping a digital negative 🙂

If you like the results of Q2M JPEGs, great! …but the DNG files need processing—they are essentially a data dump from the sensor, and it is a revelation when you start digging around in them and see the detail that can be retrieved.

[ianforber]

I always use DNGs but don’t worry if you decide not to bother processing them and instead stick with jpegs. It’s a perfectly valid choice.  I often get the same response when I mention that I crop almost every image. Some people ask why I would spend a fortune on a camera and the “throw away” all those pixels. The answer of course is that I want to because it suits me.

I know some who always shoot jpegs and always use Apple Photos to store and tweak them (there’s much less scope to process a jpeg). I’ve never tried it myself but I know Photos can edit RAW files but I’m not sure if it can do so with Leica files. If you’re familiar with it, it might be worth giving it a go?

 

[sfbaron]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I've been using my Q2M for a week now and is enjoying the camera. I have decided to use JPEG only for casual shots, and switch to JPEG+DNG for more serious work. I am glad that Apple photos retains both the JPEG and DNG files, although I would need another editor to view the DNG files. The ON1 software jaapv recommended. The cost is reasonable and has most of the functions I need. Plus, it's compatible with my older iMac 27.

So far, I am impressed with the details produced by the Q2M. User interface is pretty good. I find using the 35mm and even 50mm crop modes acceptable and more functional than just cropping the image during post process. I purchased some filters which have yield good results. 

[jaapv]

ON1 is meant to be used with DNG files or just JPG. Why don’t you shoot DNG and JPG all the time?  Should you take a marvelous photo and lack the raw, you’ll regret it. It is like shooting film, have them instantly developed and printed and then throw the negatives in the bin. 

[thegobi]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

ON1 is meant to be used with DNG files or just JPG. Why don’t you shoot DNG and JPG all the time?  Should you take a marvelous photo and lack the raw, you’ll regret it. It is like shooting film, have them instantly developed and printed and then throw the negatives in the bin. 

I have to agree with japvv here... unless you are really pushed for data storage space just keep the RAW files anyway. Future you may regret not being able to revisit an image one day. JPGs are a lossy format--every time you mess with one you lose a bit of quality!

also: Apple Photos does edit DNG files.

On a side note: it's a funny world where people take the buttery smooth greyscales from a high resolution Monochrom and shove them into software to look like high contrast, grainy, pushed-process , Tri-X images 😉

 

...me included 😜

[sfbaron]

2 hours ago, thegobi said:

I have to agree with japvv here... unless you are really pushed for data storage space just keep the RAW files anyway. Future you may regret not being able to revisit an image one day. JPGs are a lossy format--every time you mess with one you lose a bit of quality!

also: Apple Photos does edit DNG files.

On a side note: it's a funny world where people take the buttery smooth greyscales from a high resolution Monochrom and shove them into software to look like high contrast, grainy, pushed-process , Tri-X images 😉

 

...me included 😜

 

Can you please elaborate how Apple Photos can edit DNG files? I can't seem to even view DNG files with Apple photos.

[thegobi]

23 minutes ago, sfbaron said:

 

Can you please elaborate how Apple Photos can edit DNG files? I can't seem to even view DNG files with Apple photos.

Under the Image menu you will find Use 'RAW as Original'.

Under the View menu go to Metadata and you will find a 'file type' toggle to display an indicator in your photo list.

 

Just to be sure: Photos is a consumer grade product -- it can do some pretty smart stuff, but I wouldn't use it to seriously edit RAW files from a Monochrom.

If I want quick 'n dirty edits I just jump into Photos 🙂

I use it more as an organisation and backup tool. On IOS (iPad) I use the Leica app to import (sets up a folder in Photos) and then launch Lightroom from there to edit (or did until it kept crashing Lightroom... anyone else getting that recently?)

The upshot is: Photos keeps a backup of my images that can be easily transferred to my Mac for archiving. 🙂

Edited January 17, 2024 by thegobi

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[viramati]

Having had this camera for a month or so and though I am an Are shooter I have been amazed by the dynamic range in the jpeg files from this camera. at lower iso's I can pull detail from a shadow areas in a way I can with a bayer sensor camera even up to 3-4 stops in lightroom. extraordinary 

[Cogito]

another alternative to apple photos is photomator (& pixelmator) super easy to understand, more powerful, and ties in directly to apple’s file management. my only caveat on purchasing is apple recently purchased the company and it isn’t known if apple will keep them as a standalone apps or incorporate the tech into apple photos.