Internal differences between M2 and MP

[Bronco McBeast]

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7 hours ago, Matlock said:

The last person who accused me of being a troll was promptly removed from the forum. I am sorry that I can't give you a definitive answer as to the differences between M internals (I am sure someone can). However to imply that all new Ms will break is just plain daft.

I remember that... and you were trolling really hard. Just for the record.

[grahamc]

this thread will brie the end of me 

[madNbad]

5 hours ago, grahamc said:

this thread will brie the end of me 

Didn’t we answer the OP question on the first page?

[Vlad Soare]

23 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Didn’t we answer the OP question on the first page?

Not really.

The question wasn't about differences in use and feel, but rather about differences in design and materials that we would find if we were to dismantle both cameras and to take a deep look inside. In other words, exactly what cost-cutting compromises would we see in a modern M that aren't there in the M2?
Apparently no one can answer this question. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[Fotoklaus]

If you want a new M this question is just obsolete.

[Vlad Soare]

8 minutes ago, Fotoklaus said:

If you want a new M this question is just obsolete.

This question can help you decide whether you want a new M, or you'd be better off with an old one.
Besides, even if you've already decided that you do want a new M, it's still nice to know what you're going to get. At least you know how you stand and what you can expect in the future.
 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[Fotoklaus]

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You never know what you get. These days the problems are not the quality of the parts. It is the way how they are put together.

If i wanted to have the best quality with the most possible "new features" i would look after a 10-15 years old MP and add a CLA.

[Vlad Soare]

Maybe. But I'd still like to know what's inside, irrespective of whether other people consider it worthy of knowing or not. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[Fotoklaus]

You are free to disassemble your camera .

[Vlad Soare]

I know I am. But that's not the point of a forum, is it?

[Fotoklaus]

Well, you could do it as a pastime and post the results here. 

[a.noctilux]

13 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

You are free to disassemble your camera .

 

11 hours ago, Vlad Soare said:

I know I am. But that's not the point of a forum, is it?

 

9 minutes ago, Fotoklaus said:

Well, you could do it as a pastime and post the results here. 

Don't forget Vlad to make video while disassembling, posting also on Youtube to gain some notoriety/money of subscribers.

[Huss]

Not wanting to read through 7 pages but.... I have an old M (M3) and the latest newest M6.

My M6, and MP, and M-A all feel smoother and tighter than my M3.  As well as the M3 I sold.

So whatever Leica is doing, a lot of it is right.

My M3 feels smoother than my M5.  The M7s feel the same as the M3.

[Vlad Soare]

Yeah, but feel is subjective. You can't detect build quality and cost-cutting concessions just by feel alone.
Your MP did have the plastic cog in the frame counter reset mechanism replaced, didn't it? I have a hunch that your M3 didn't and is still working fine.

 

[Huss]

14 hours ago, Vlad Soare said:

Yeah, but feel is subjective. You can't detect build quality and cost-cutting concessions just by feel alone.
Your MP did have the plastic cog in the frame counter reset mechanism replaced, didn't it? I have a hunch that your M3 didn't and is still working fine.

 

That stooopid plastic piece is used in all the Ms since the... M4-2?

But when I use a camera, the feel is the most important thing to me.  And my new ones feel better than my old ones.

[Vlad Soare]

Fair enough. Though that better feel does tend to erode somewhat when something stops working properly - even if it's just a tiny thing like a frame counter. But I get your point.

 

[Huss]

15 hours ago, Vlad Soare said:

Fair enough. Though that better feel does tend to erode somewhat when something stops working properly - even if it's just a tiny thing like a frame counter. But I get your point.

 

The thing about old cameras like an M3, is that even though they may have been better built, they are really old now and time does take its toll.  I've seen/heard of quite a few with rf delamination, failed shutter curtains, failed shutter rollers etc.  Because they are now perhaps 70 years old!

Of course that can be repaired, but the odds of something major like that failing in a new M is extremely remote over the next 40 or so years!  A failed plastic film counter cog is small potatoes in comparison, and does not actually prevent you from taking pics.

[Vlad Soare]

True. That's a fair point. 

[Matlock]

9 hours ago, Huss said:

The thing about old cameras like an M3, is that even though they may have been better built, they are really old now and time does take its toll.  I've seen/heard of quite a few with rf delamination, failed shutter curtains, failed shutter rollers etc.  Because they are now perhaps 70 years old!

Of course that can be repaired, but the odds of something major like that failing in a new M is extremely remote over the next 40 or so years!  A failed plastic film counter cog is small potatoes in comparison, and does not actually prevent you from taking pics.

My only non operational Leica is, sadly, my DS M3 with a shutter fault which I have been informed is difficult to repair. As it had several other defects I have decided to just display it and continue to use my M6TTL and M7 in the main (and my IIId). I feel that after 68 years the old M3 has had a good innings, mind you the IIId is 84years old and still going strong.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[105012]

I recently stopped by an official Leica store. Great experience, friendly and helpful, I bought a Leica strap from them. Whilst there I tried out an M-A and a new M6, I had one of my M3's with me. Very nice indeed, but, sorry to say, neither of the new ones had the luxurious smoothness or quiet shutter of the M3 (that one was serviced 9 years ago).