Leica vs. aftermarket M-Lens adapter for the SL2 - what's the advantage?

[Steve B]

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I want to explore using my M lenses on my SL2. What is the primary advantage to purchasing the Leica M-lens to L adapter ($450 current USA pricing) verses using a generic aftermarket lens adapter? Other than the assumed perfect fit of the Leica adapter, I don't really need to have the EXIF data transfer advantage that the bona-fide Leica adapter offers.  Thanks in advance for all comments.

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[John Smith]

I'd suggest sticking with the Leica adapters. You can find used ones—mint—at places like Leica Miami for $325 or so. 

[Cattoo]

Along with the exif data transfer you get in-camera corrections for vignetting, etc.  Agree with John, go for a used one.  You collected enough pennies to buy an SL2.  Might as well scrounge a few more to buy the leica adapter.  You'll have less regrets later.

[hdmesa]

The biggest drawback to the Leica brand adapter is lack of a macro function. For me, being able to close-focus M lenses is one of the major advantages of using M lenses on a non-M camera.

With regard to in-camera corrections, you get the same thing by manually selecting the matching profile yourself in-camera – the automatic 6-bit code recognition just saves you a trip into the menu every time you change lenses. I set one of the front function buttons to bring up the lens detection menu.

Edited July 26, 2023 by hdmesa

[Photoworks]

12 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

With regard to in-camera corrections, you get the same thing by manually selecting the matching profile yourself in-camera – the automatic 6-bit code recognition just saves you a trip into the menu every time you change lenses. I set one of the front function buttons to bring up the lens detection menu.

Sorry to say this is incorrect and has been debated many times before.

The lens selection in the camera only will give you the focal length in Exif data, but more important it will be necessary to activate Sensor stabilization.

Only if the camera reads the info from the lens you get the lens correction in camera.

If you are using non-6-bit lenses, you can use the other adapters.

The Leica adapter does NOT have a hard stop at infinity on the M lense, this is by design. Used one can be acquired for $300-350

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

...The lens selection in the camera only will give you the focal length in Exif data, but more important it will be necessary to activate Sensor stabilization...

Current SL2/SL2-S firmware lets the user manually select a focal length in order to enable IBIS with adapted lenses (since Q3 2022), and choosing an M or R lens profile is no longer necessary.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2022/09/leica-sl2-sl2-s-firmware-adds-perspective-control/

Quote

Lens Profiles Updates

Leica has updated the Lens Profiles section of the menu, now showing a more comprehensive selection of M and R lenses, as well as allowing for somewhat agnostic focal length selection under the new Other Lens menu. Here, you can now set the focal length manually from 12mm up to 400mm. This setting will not impart an in-camera lens correction like the M and R lens profiles do. Rather, the focal length selection will merely pass in EXIF data and be used for determining the Auto Shutter Speed Limit in the Auto ISO settings.

Putting that aside, I could have sworn on the current firmware it was baking in corrections with non-Leica adapters with the SL2-S I used to own. I have an SL2 coming tomorrow, and I'll double-check as to the corrections being included with non-Leica adapters. Since Leica changed this menu completely and also corrected a bug that wasn't transferring EXIF for third party adapters, that could have also allowed corrections to now be applied when manually selecting an M lens profile with third-party adapters:

Quote

Bug Fixes

In some cases, lens EXIF data was missing for third-party adapters.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by hdmesa

[frame-it]

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8 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Current SL2/SL2-S firmware lets the user manually select a focal length in order to enable IBIS with adapted lenses (since Q3 2022), and choosing an M or R lens profile is no longer necessary.

sure, but the lens corrections [color cast/vignetting etc ]do NOT work.

 

[hdmesa]

8 minutes ago, frame-it said:

sure, but the lens corrections [color cast/vignetting etc ]do NOT work.

 

Gotcha. Must be when I saw them being applied, I was using the Leica adapter.

Edit to add: This can be a reason either for or against using the Leica adapter – someone might want the EXIF from the manual profile but not the corrections.

Edited July 27, 2023 by hdmesa

[dpitt]

10 hours ago, hdmesa said:

... Since Leica changed this menu completely and also corrected a bug that wasn't transferring EXIF for third party adapters, that could have also allowed corrections to now be applied when manually selecting an M lens profile with third-party adapters:

 

Thanks! I was not aware of this bug fix. I hope this also applies to SL firmware. I am going to check if I find a newer version than I am using now. I definitely noticed that with my current firmware version, selecting the right profile with my Novoflex adapter is not reflected at all in the EXIF data that I see in C1P. 

I now use keywords to remember what lens was used for the shot, but it would definitely help if the FL and profile name of the selected profile was recorded in EXIF information.

It is a pity that lens corrections are not applied. Does this also happen when using a Leica adapter with a non coded lens? Or does lens correction work as expected according to your selected profile in that case?

[Photoworks]

Leica is very conservative here. if you see the 6bit coding it knows to go ahead and apply.
Some of the corrections can't be reversed, but by selecting an incorrect lens you may end up with unwanted results.

Some people apply their own incorrect 6bit on other brands' lenses, so your mileage may vary. I would not do it on lenses like the 21mm, the shading correction on the Voigtlander does not look correct.

[hansvons]

If you want the 6 Bit information transfer you need the Leica adapter. Otherwise, a cheaper 3rd party solution works as well as the Leica adapter if you don't cheap out. 

The TT-Artisan adapter is too imprecise for correct infinity, the Novoflex on the other hand is as precisely machined as Leica‘s but costs 300 EUR less. 

[dpitt]

On 7/27/2023 at 1:03 PM, dpitt said:

Thanks! I was not aware of this bug fix. I hope this also applies to SL firmware. I am going to check if I find a newer version than I am using now. I definitely noticed that with my current firmware version, selecting the right profile with my Novoflex adapter is not reflected at all in the EXIF data that I see in C1P. 

I now use keywords to remember what lens was used for the shot, but it would definitely help if the FL and profile name of the selected profile was recorded in EXIF information.

It is a pity that lens corrections are not applied. Does this also happen when using a Leica adapter with a non coded lens? Or does lens correction work as expected according to your selected profile in that case?

Because of what @hdmesa said earlier in this thread, I had good hope that the EXIF issue on my SL was fixed in the latest firmware. I was still on 3.7 on my SL (601). With my novoflex adapter not even the FL was recorded after choosing a correct R lens profile. After downloading and installing the latest 3.82 firmware, nothing has changed. Still the EXIF shows Lens N/A and Focal Length is -- 😒

On 7/27/2023 at 3:07 PM, hansvons said:

If you want the 6 Bit information transfer you need the Leica adapter. Otherwise, a cheaper 3rd party solution works as well as the Leica adapter if you don't cheap out. 

The TT-Artisan adapter is too imprecise for correct infinity, the Novoflex on the other hand is as precisely machined as Leica‘s but costs 300 EUR less. 

Yes the Novoflex is very accurate. Unfortunately Leica chose to not transfer the chosen profile to the EXIF data when you use anything but the native adapter. I can not see any technical reason to do that. It is just a commercial incentive to buy their overpriced adapter. It is probably more complex and expensive to exclude this feature compared to what it would have costed to just letting the EXIF data pass through. 😱

Most of my M lenses are uncoded. They are vintage anyway. My R lenses are mostly non-ROM lenses too. So, even with the native adapters, I would be forced to choose the correct profile manually and I would not have any additional benefit from the electronics in the adapters (M-L and R-M).

I love Leica gear and gladly pay premium prices for IQ and mechanical perfection. I do not like to pay for features that do not cost anything to implement.

 

[Cattoo]

3 hours ago, dpitt said:

Unfortunately Leica chose to not transfer the chosen profile to the EXIF data when you use anything but the native adapter.

Why can't Novoflex incorporate a sensor on their adapter that reads the six-bit code just like the Leica one does? Is it a patent issue?

 

[hdmesa]

47 minutes ago, Cattoo said:

...Is it a patent issue?

 

Yes

[frame-it]

20 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Yes

i wonder, because the original fujifilm M mount adapter for X bodies is not a 100% dumb adapter though it obviously doesn't read the 6 bit code

>>>offers image processing tailored specifically to M mount lenses attached using this adapter. Users of earlier versions can download the latest firmware from http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/#firmware

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

[hdmesa]

16 minutes ago, frame-it said:

i wonder, because the original fujifilm M mount adapter for X bodies is not a 100% dumb adapter though it obviously doesn't read the 6 bit code

>>>offers image processing tailored specifically to M mount lenses attached using this adapter. Users of earlier versions can download the latest firmware from http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/#firmware

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

6-bit code is the only thing with a patent. Leica can’t stop anyone from making an adapter that knows when a lens is attached. As far as this example goes, I’m confused since there is no “signal” involved with the physical 6-bit code. It’s just an engraving on the lens mount that uses white or black paint in the six cutouts.

[BernardC]

12 hours ago, hdmesa said:

6-bit code is the only thing with a patent. Leica can’t stop anyone from making an adapter that knows when a lens is attached. As far as this example goes, I’m confused since there is no “signal” involved with the physical 6-bit code. It’s just an engraving on the lens mount that uses white or black paint in the six cutouts.

You can't patent the interface. That's how open-source Java works: same input and output, but the code is different.

In theory, you could make an adapter that reads all six bits (which means a light source and a sensor for each bit), and then outputs the same information that Leica's adapter does over the electronic contacts.

Not much of a business case, though. This clone adapter would cost a lot to manufacture, and it would have to be marketed to people who buy modern Leica lenses but want to save some scratch on an adapter, but not a lot of scratch because then they'd get a non-coded adapter...

[dpitt]

18 hours ago, Cattoo said:

Why can't Novoflex incorporate a sensor on their adapter that reads the six-bit code just like the Leica one does? Is it a patent issue?

 

I think it can be done technically, but then it would be almost as expensive as Leica's adapter. My point is that the most logical thing in firmware would be to just write the current Profile to EXIF no matter how it is set (either electronically or manually) independent of which adapter is present. But Leica chose to take a different route and writes the current Profile only if their native adapter is present (whether the profile is set electronically by a 6-bit lens or just set manually in case of a non coded lens does not matter in that case).

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[Olaf_ZG]

I simply ordered the original one. Expensive, yes, but so is the cam and so are the lenses. To me it was silly to save on an adapter where I buy expensive stuff to get the best possible IQ. But then, that is just me.

[dpitt]

3 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I simply ordered the original one. Expensive, yes, but so is the cam and so are the lenses. To me it was silly to save on an adapter where I buy expensive stuff to get the best possible IQ. But then, that is just me.

You are absolutely right. If I had spend thousands on one lens, I would already have bought this adapter.

But in my case, I bought my SL recently at a very good price. It is getting older anyway... and almost all of my M lenses are not 6-bit coded. One of the few that have been coded is my Summicron 40C which is coded as a Summicron 50. So in that case I would not have much use for the EXIF info. Most of my other lenses did not even cost nearly as much as the converter M-L (like LTM and 90 - 135 mm vintage lenses).  I use my R lenses more on the SL than my M lenses, and these are non-ROM, costing even less than the M lenses.

I would need to pay hundreds just to have some info written to the EXIF. To get correct info, I would still have to select it manually.

For the moment, I will stay member of the user group that uses an old SL with a dumb Novoflex adapter. The IQ is the same as with the Leica adapter. I just need to remember to set the right lens profile in camera. And after the shoot, I have to remember to add the lens name in the keywords in PP, as I had to do with my other camera's.

Leica has the right to try pushing their adapters this way, even if they could fix this in firmware by leaving out some lines of code (which now block the info) so that the lens profile that I have selected manually will end up in the EXIF data automatically (because that code is already working for the native adapter).

If I will find a second hand Leica adapter at a very good price, I will consider it, but chances are that I would rather buy an other old lens with the money.