M8 Moire

[jaapv]

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I think there is some confusions here as I don't believe the patterns in this example are moire. They are a maze like pattern from the demosaicing process of the raw converter. I can't say if you can expect the DeMoirize plugin to do a good job on it. (It may help remove the color but the pattern will remain.)

 

The unreleased version 5 of DxO claims to be an improvement in this regard, but I don't believe it will support the M8.

 

If you go to this link and click on the letters A,B, and C of the first example you will see similar maze artifacts:

 

A new generation RAW converter

 

I think you are right. In C1 you can prevent this by switching off all sharpening.

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[hankg]

Try a different raw converter and see if the pattern changes.

[pklein]

In Capture One, on the same tab as sharpening (Focus?), there is a check box called "remove pattern noise." It takes care of those maze (labyrinth-like) patterns that sometimes crop up with the M8. It probably would not get rid of all of the moire, but it might reduce it. I notice that the moire on the golf pants has a maze-like component, too.

 

Some people never see this check box, because it is below the bottom of a standard window at 1024x768. Make the C1 window full-screen and you'll see it.

 

--Peter

[AlanG]

Here is an example of the same image converted with C-1 Pro (vers. 3.7.7), DPP (3.2) and DxO (ver 4.5). It was shot with a 45 TSE on a 5D. Note the difference in artifacts on the trim above the windows. In a few other examples, I think I have seen a bit more moire in some of my DxO conversion than from the same image converted in C-1. (But they keep updating DxO so that may have changed.) Also - the DPP image is a bit smaller. (I don't know this program very well so I couldn't get the size to match exactly.) The C-1 and DxO images are probably about 130% magnification

 

On the C-1 conversion, I turned off all sharpening yet the output image was still sharper than the DxO and DPP versions. So I added a little USM to the DxO and DPP versions to match. (Also, DxO removes the c/a)

 

In any case, this should serve as an example that the converters can make a difference and shows why I like DxO so much. I am very interested to see if DxO version 5 lives up to its claims. I suggest that M8 users write to DxO asking for M8 support in version 5 as it might solve some of these issues.

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[rosuna]

DxO claims a much improved noise supression based on a better reading of the RAW information. It can incorporate film simulation styles too.

 

I work with Lightroom, and I would like to see a better quality in the RAW reading algorithms (noise, detail, tonality...), improving the image quality before any adjustment is made. DxO, Raw Developer or Capture One seem to be the best "readers".

[mjh]

Our medium Imacon and Kodak DCS never produced this kind of Moire. Neither did our Kodak DCS SLR pro...

I can assure you that both are quite capable of creating just as much moiré and more – I’ve been there, and trust me: it doesn’t look nice. Any sensor with RGB filters arranged in a Bayer pattern (or any pattern) but without an antialiasing filter will produce moiré; there’s no way around that. Any differences you see will either be due to differences in the sharpness of the lenses (less sharpness = less moiré) or differences in the moiré suppression by the raw converter.

[hankg]

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In any case, this should serve as an example that the converters can make a difference and shows why I like DxO so much. I am very interested to see if DxO version 5 lives up to its claims. I suggest that M8 users write to DxO asking for M8 support in version 5 as it might solve some of these issues.

 

Yes if DxO v5 is as good as the sample on the web site would lead you to believe I would think that DxO should start thinking of themselves as a competitor to Lightroom and C1 not just as a provider of lens correction software. They have some interesting components to their software aside from the lens/sensor specific stuff. I think a lot of that is going to move in camera anyway in the future so they had better refocus on raw and post tools.

[gmaurizio]

More valuable contributions. Thanks to all!

I am not sure about the semantics, and what should be called demosaic-ing artifacts, what should be called moiré, or what. The fact remains that the lack of AA filtering on the M8, while producing sharper images, generates a whole load of problems in PJ, editorial and advertising.

As per C1, both Pro, LE and Beta 4, produce horrible results with the images I have posted. Of course, I cannot upload the DNG file, but the old plugin is able to remove it almost completely, leaving a luminosity weird pattern barely detectable in print, although on screen it looks like !@##$$$!!.

The fabric in question is a simple Prince of Wales style, like the other images (not posted) of typical golf t-shirts you can find in any pro store.

Lightroom, Aperture and C1 have the same problem. DxO does not support the M8. C1 plugin either requires Windows or PPC... I guess Leica needs to address this issue the same way it did address the IR problem, since it can be mitigated with SW.