Sounds like just a lull in the product process

[davidmknoble]

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So we all knew it was coming and it seems to be pretty official now that the current Leica S - DSLR system is now at the end, but it also seems, at least for now, that the mirrorless S system is underway, but scheduled for 2025 (instead of sooner, like 2024).  We’ve seen that for a year or so, but still think about the R system and how it ended.

I would love to see it here faster, just to know what the system might look like.  The hasselblad X2D and their new lenses (the 38, 55, 90v) seem to be filling in the gap, except for the more extreme weather sealing.

Yet, the interesting part is that I have not outgrown the S system as it stands and the images it produces still make me come back for more.

It sounds like a lull in the process as Leica figures out how to handle pieces of the technology and engineering.  Hoping 2025 is realistic!

[frame-it]

you mean since this was posted ?

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[Milan_S]

20 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

So we all knew it was coming and it seems to be pretty official now that the current Leica S - DSLR system is now at the end, but it also seems, at least for now, that the mirrorless S system is underway, but scheduled for 2025 (instead of sooner, like 2024).  We’ve seen that for a year or so, but still think about the R system and how it ended.

I would love to see it here faster, just to know what the system might look like.  The hasselblad X2D and their new lenses (the 38, 55, 90v) seem to be filling in the gap, except for the more extreme weather sealing.

Yet, the interesting part is that I have not outgrown the S system as it stands and the images it produces still make me come back for more.

It sounds like a lull in the process as Leica figures out how to handle pieces of the technology and engineering.  Hoping 2025 is realistic!

The S3 is still my all time favorite camera with the images it produces, and I think it's a classic the last of it's kind with the optical viewfinder and the cinematic rendering of the lenses which we all love. A S4 mirrorless MF system is the way forward for the future and it would be awesome if Leica keeps their Medium Format focus. If it will be a whole new system it will take time but I am sure Leica will deliver a pleasant surprise with a wonderful camera as they have surprised us in the past with the S2, the Monochrom and SL systems all ground breaking. 

[davidmknoble]

21 hours ago, frame-it said:

ou mean since this was posted ?

I’ve been saying a new system would probably come out for a long time.  The real question is whether Leica is going to beat their estimate of 2025, and typically with the S system they are a little later.  I’ve also heard from others that know more that the S system remains alive.  Nothing more, but I believe them.

So my point is that if they announce, key word being announce, the end of the S3, it’s a pretty long time between now and a new body.  Longer than the time from the S007 to the S3.  So, they are probably re-tooling the S lens / body area in manufacturing to work on a new system.

My real guess is that they are using the SL Summicron technology and that they will develop a new line of f/2 medium format lenses with real autofocus motors.  The problem will still be glass weight and size though.

[davidmknoble]

@Milan_S, classic, isn’t that a great word to describe something that was new not long ago? 

I still love shooting film, and I think of my Hasselblad 503cxi as a classic, or my Leica M3, M4P as classics.  Yet, I think you are right, especially as the S lenses were developed a long time ago (in the digital world) with no focal length updates - the 30, 70, 120 are the same lens designs as the day they were released.  More importantly, the lenses were designed so well that they still perform at an optimum each design forward.

Agreed with your assessment.

[LocalHero1953]

I wonder how much of the delay is also attributable to sensor technology: waiting to get a next gen sensor that marks a step forward in IQ or performance, not just body format. It looks like the SL3 will be later than expected (late 2024?) and both SL3, S4 and, perhaps M12, may be waiting till a suitable sensor can be sourced. After all, a SL3 (and the S4 mutatis mutandis) with just the M11 or Q3 sensor would not be much of a step forward given the time that will have elapsed. 

[Stuart Richardson]

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I think the best way to deal with Leica in these circumstances (or any camera company, tbh), is to take the products as they come, or when they are announced. Until then they are vaporware. Leica pretty unceremoniously ended the R line and people who were waiting for an all digital R10 (which had been rumored) or a DMR 2 were left high and dry. In the end the S line replaced the R line, but it was not really a carry-over, and no aspect of the R line was compatible with the S (at least not from Leica). I think since the S does not seem to have been a particularly popular part of Leica's portfolio, it is a bit risky to pin one's hopes on it. Even if they are working on a new medium format camera internally, that does not mean they will actually bring it to market. If they do, it could still be years away (especially with the S, sometimes the announcement was more than a year before the camera actually arrived). I truly hope they bring out a new medium format Leica at a price which is not wildly more than their competitors, but I am not holding my breath. I think the best way forward is to enjoy the S system for as long as it is practical for you (which could be a very long time), or carry on with the camera or line that does work for you today. If you want a mirrorless medium format, I would say it is probably better to invest in Hasselblad or Fuji for the time being, and then if you have to sell it later for the Leica, that is probably still going to be a happy day. If Leica never does bring one out, at least you will have been shooting the MF mirrorless that you had been looking for in the meantime.

[irenedp]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I wonder how much of the delay is also attributable to sensor technology: waiting to get a next gen sensor that marks a step forward in IQ or performance, not just body format. It looks like the SL3 will be later than expected (late 2024?) and both SL3, S4 and, perhaps M12, may be waiting till a suitable sensor can be sourced. After all, a SL3 (and the S4 mutatis mutandis) with just the M11 or Q3 sensor would not be much of a step forward given the time that will have elapsed. 

I believe lower resolution sensors provide better image quality and definition for a given lens build. My take is that the current S lenses, despite being excellent, may work better with an S3 than with a potential S4 with higher resolution.

But because of the flange issue and the need of an adaptor, I reckon that Leica will design a full set of new lenses, plus an adaptor for the older. Just the same as others, like Nikon or Canon, have done before. The new sensor may probably be around 100 MP, just to be able to compete with Fuji and Hasselblad. The difference vs those, to support a higher price point -I don't think Leica will go for the 10,000 USD body nor for the 2,000 USD lens-, should be perfect lenses and a smaller, but more profitable upper crust professional customer segment. 

Looking forward to see it when it comes.

[Pieter12]

It seems that mirrorless is the way of the future for digital photography. And Leica already has excellent contenders in the category. Why bother with an S4 except to show that they can do it (at an expected exorbitant price, too)? Clients and pros don't give a damn about the brand being used as long as the results are what they want, the equipment is reliable and support is available.

I, unfortunately, have never warmed up to the mirrorless viewfinder, I don't give a rat's ass about video. I am quite happy with the equipment I have as long as I can keep it working. And I still shoot film, too.

[davidmknoble]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:56 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

. I think the best way forward is to enjoy the S system for as long as it is practical for you (which could be a very long time)

Agreed!  That is what I plan on doing!  With lens prices lower I picked up one or two I would not have otherwise.  I still love shooting the S system (and the R system with film for that matter).