Leica SL (TYP-601): Noise DNG vs Jpeg: can you help me solve the problem, please?

[Shepherdphotographer]

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If you export into TIFF file, you don't lose quality of the image, while if you convert into jpeg, you lose it. So, jaapv, I can't see a jpeg image, of I convert into tiff.....

Edited July 1, 2023 by Shepherdphotographer

[Shepherdphotographer]

Continuing to use Lightroom to try to obtain better files, I not only managed, as I said before, to obtain a file with less noise and more sharpness from a dng at ISO>400 and I saved the processing as a preset that I will use for promos for those my few shots with ISO >400, but minsono I notice something else.  The SL TYP-601 allows you to take B/W photos only in jpeg, but if you shoot color in dng, post-production on the dng with Lightroom and export as TIFF, then with Adobe Photoshop convert to B/W, you get a much sharper and overall better photo, much better than the josg generated and worked directly in a standard way by the SL when you shoot in B/W and this because by converting or shooting in jpeg, you lose quality, a lot of quality, compared to a DNG worked and then converted to tiff (instead of converted to jpeg) or shooting (with the Nikon D810 it was possible, for example) directly in tiff.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Shepherdphotographer said:

Continuing to use Lightroom to try to obtain better files, I not only managed, as I said before, to obtain a file with less noise and more sharpness from a dng at ISO>400 and I saved the processing as a preset that I will use for promos for those my few shots with ISO >400, but minsono I notice something else.  The SL TYP-601 allows you to take B/W photos only in jpeg, but if you shoot color in dng, post-production on the dng with Lightroom and export as TIFF, then with Adobe Photoshop convert to B/W, you get a much sharper and overall better photo, much better than the josg generated and worked directly in a standard way by the SL when you shoot in B/W and this because by converting or shooting in jpeg, you lose quality, a lot of quality, compared to a DNG worked and then converted to tiff (instead of converted to jpeg) or shooting (with the Nikon D810 it was possible, for example) directly in tiff.

Yes. DNG=TIFF with a different header.

 

[Shepherdphotographer]

No, it isn't. If you shoot with a reflex Nikon, like D810, which allows to shoot in raw and tiff, of you convert immediately the raw in tiff with a software and you compare it with the tiff direct of the camera, the second is much better, because a raw (nef, dng, ecc....) nerds to be post-produced.

[jaapv]

The file that is (apart from sidecar files) contained within the DNG is a TIFF 6.0 one. It needs to be extracted before you can edit it. I suspect your antiquated software is not able to do this and it will show you the embedded jpg thumbnail. Of course a program like LR which only converts the DNG on export is much better.
Nikon does not use DNG so your argument is neither here nor there. You can easily  convert a raw file like .NEF or .CRW to DNG to make it universal. I do so as a standard on my Panasonic files to harmonize my workflow. 
I would suggest, if you are interested in such things,  to start reading up on the subject. At any rate I am out of this pointless discussion which takes me twenty years back. 

[Photoworks]

18 hours ago, Shepherdphotographer said:

Continuing to use Lightroom to try to obtain better files, I not only managed, as I said before, to obtain a file with less noise and more sharpness from a dng at ISO>400 and I saved the processing as a preset that I will use for promos for those my few shots with ISO >400, but minsono I notice something else.  The SL TYP-601 allows you to take B/W photos only in jpeg, but if you shoot color in dng, post-production on the dng with Lightroom and export as TIFF, then with Adobe Photoshop convert to B/W, you get a much sharper and overall better photo, much better than the josg generated and worked directly in a standard way by the SL when you shoot in B/W and this because by converting or shooting in jpeg, you lose quality, a lot of quality, compared to a DNG worked and then converted to tiff (instead of converted to jpeg) or shooting (with the Nikon D810 it was possible, for example) directly in tiff.

I think you are mixing up, presets, and formats.

What comes out of the camera is a RAW file, and in addition, you can have a JPG that has the presets that were set in the camera, Some parameters can be changed in Camera that will influence your camera output.

The TIFF from Nikon is just a processed image in the camera.

Lightroom. 
If you are using an old version, you are not benefitting from the improvements made in the software. If you have the latest LrC, you should have the new Ps
Sharpening and noise reduction always need to be applied in post-production since Raw files have not been set. Lightroom can give you a leg up by reading the metadata and suggesting a start.

 

[Shepherdphotographer]

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@jaapv: You didn't understand anything...... I'm glad you won't participate anymore.

[jaapv]

Well, you could PM me a Dropbox DNG then I could see what you think is happening.

[frame-it]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:06 AM, Shepherdphotographer said:

No, it isn't.

a TIFF IS a DNG file with a different file header.

because the file header is different, some characteristics are diffferent.

Edited July 2, 2023 by frame-it

[Photoworks]

Even if DNG was developed over the TIFF format, Tiff does not have any raw editing capabilities.

The TIFF coming out of the NIKON D810 is only an 8BIT file. no real point in using it in the camera since you lose most highlights and shadow recovery over the RAW file, and with time the raw engine improves and the color and rendering will improve too, not so much on a TIFF file.

DNGs are not all the same!

DNG from the camera contains metadata that the software reads to give you an initial interpretation from the manufacturer.

Exported DNG from Lightroom and only compatible with Adobe. they contain other information, crop, masks, and other editing settings. These files will not open in other editing software.

TIFF is still a file format used for saving your edited photo, it can have a high bit rate and supports layers.

 

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, frame-it said:

a TIFF IS a DNG file with a different file header.

because the file header is different, some characteristics are diffferent.

If you use file recovery software the DNG files will show up as .TIF. But they cannot be read  because they have the wrong header.
You only need to change the extension to .DNG to be able to use them.