pedaes Posted June 5 Share #681 Posted June 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, willeica said: Leica now has a darkroom About 40 minutes in 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 5 Posted June 5 Hi pedaes, Take a look here 100 years Null-Serie. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sandro Posted June 5 Share #682 Posted June 5 Roland, the German edition of the booklet Wie arbeitet man mit Leitz "Leica"-Kamera dates from september 1929. I mention this since the text of the earlier German edition is not exactly the same as what you showed. The first paragraph only mentions film of Agfa and Perutz. Lex Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378437-100-years-null-serie/?do=findComment&comment=5812946'>More sharing options...
Oscar F Posted June 5 Share #683 Posted June 5 On 6/1/2025 at 6:59 PM, derleicaman said: Here is a better picture of the lions at the front of the Chicago Art Institute looking North. The lake is two blocks East. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Ernst Leitz II made several stops going from the Interesting! This is a bit off topic. That particular 1914 EL II photo has been previously described as being in NYC looking up 5th Ave towards the two lions in front of the NYC Public Library. That didn’t seem out-of-the-question as EL took numerous other photos in Manhattan. The lions appear to be standing in the 1914 photo. Among other things, the two lions in Chicago are standing, whereas the two lions in NYC are reclining. In addition, the street lamps in the 1914 photo resemble very closely those in the postcard photo. Looking at Google Street View today, there is no question. The building has the same peaked roof, the street lamps are still there, and the distinctive building with the colonnades is across the road! Michigan Ave today is a divided street with a lot of trees, making an exact match difficult. The two NYC lions (marble) on Fifth Ave, known as Fortitude and Patience, have been a landmark on Fifth Ave since the library was dedicated in 1911. The two Chicago lions (bronze) have been standing guard on Michigan Ave since 1894. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 5 Author Share #684 Posted June 5 Oscar, So glad that you join in! It shows how important it is that people with local knowledge (Ed Schwartzreich included) have access to the contact prints of the Ernst Leitz II negatives of 1914. So far in Leica literature only a small part of the negatives have been made available. I hope the Leitz Archive will facilitate this. Roland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted June 5 Share #685 Posted June 5 3 hours ago, Oscar F said: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Interesting! This is a bit off topic. That particular 1914 EL II photo has been previously described as being in NYC looking up 5th Ave towards the two lions in front of the NYC Public Library. That didn’t seem out-of-the-question as EL took numerous other photos in Manhattan. The lions appear to be standing in the 1914 photo. Among other things, the two lions in Chicago are standing, whereas the two lions in NYC are reclining. In addition, the street lamps in the 1914 photo resemble very closely those in the postcard photo. Looking at Google Street View today, there is no question. The building has the same peaked roof, the street lamps are still there, and the distinctive building with the colonnades is across the road! Michigan Ave today is a divided street with a lot of trees, making an exact match difficult. The two NYC lions (marble) on Fifth Ave, known as Fortitude and Patience, have been a landmark on Fifth Ave since the library was dedicated in 1911. The two Chicago lions (bronze) have been standing guard on Michigan Ave since 1894. Hello Oscar, in doing some research a few years ago, I stumbled on some images E Leitz II had taken in Chicago on his trip across the US. He had a photo of the Goethe Monument and also some boats on the lake front that were converted into restaurants or hotels. I did some photo research of the local newspaper files, and also a movie taken from an airplane or airship of the Chicago lake front at this time. I will have to find those files. I think this would make an interesting subject matter for an LSI Viewfinder article! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted June 5 Share #686 Posted June 5 5 minutes ago, derleicaman said: Hello Oscar, in doing some research a few years ago, I stumbled on some images E Leitz II had taken in Chicago on his trip across the US. He had a photo of the Goethe Monument and also some boats on the lake front that were converted into restaurants or hotels. I did some photo research of the local newspaper files, and also a movie taken from an airplane or airship of the Chicago lake front at this time. I will have to find those files. I think this would make an interesting subject matter for an LSI Viewfinder article! Here is an image I saved from the unveiling of the Goethe Monument here in Chicago in 1914. E Leitz II was present for this event. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378437-100-years-null-serie/?do=findComment&comment=5813079'>More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted June 5 Share #687 Posted June 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) Doing a little more digging, this came up on the LFI website. I think I have seen this before in Wetzlar. We must take a look when we are there later this month. The images are a little too small to identify, but I would be safe to say these are not all in New York City! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378437-100-years-null-serie/?do=findComment&comment=5813100'>More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #688 Posted June 6 Bill and Oscar, Yes, some of these pages are published in Leica literature, but not all. Ed Schwartzreich once told me how happy he would be if he could have a complete overview. I really feel it is important that Leica-researchers like you can have access to this information while you are still with us. What purpose waiting another 100 years? You are still in a unique position to combine your Leica-research with your knowledge of the environment that Ernst Leitz II visited in 1914. As a Dutchman, I do not have this comparative avantage! Roland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #689 Posted June 6 Alan, Bill, Lex, Oscar, William, Thank you for your additional information. It was my aim to provide and justify a date for Alan’s exposure table in as few steps as possible. In this way I arrive at 1930-1931. As far as I can see your additional information is in line with my 1930-1931 estimate. But it is indeed possible to enrich the analysis with additional primary sources! Before 1930 Perutz was so much ahead of Agfa that Leitz hardly pays attention to the availability of 35mm Agfa films. When Agfa is mentioned, it is almost out of courtesy for the market leader/ former monopolist. Leica publicity in the period 1928-1929 is all about Perutz. This changes in the course of 1930-1931. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #690 Posted June 6 In my analysis I have not focussed on Leitz publicity, but on the empirical results of Curt Emmermann, the later editor of Die Leica. In the 1920s Emmermann was already known for his empirical testing of films and dry plates in terms of overall sensitivity (Scheiner degrees) and sensitivity to colour (orthochromatism). He stood in a rich tradition. Sensitometry was an evergreen subject in German photo literature of the 1910s and 1920s. In January 1928 Emmermann recommends the two orthochromatic Perutz films (Grünsiegel and Flieger) above all others. He does this after extensive empirical testing. He mentions the contemporary Agfa cine negative film, but quite bluntly as an unsuitable film for Leica photography. This must have been very painful for the market leader/ former monopolist Agfa. It must have motivated Agfa to catch up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #691 Posted June 6 In early 1931 the same Curt Emmermann presents the Perutz Fliegerfilm and a panchromatic Agfa film on the same level in terms of overall sensitivity (18 Scheiner). The sensitivity to the colour yellow is almost identical (a 2x filter factor with a yellow 1 filter for the Fliegerfilm, a 2,5x factor for the Agfa film). Emmermann does not mention the Scheiner sensitivity as advertised by these producers, but he presents his own empirical results. This may explain why the same films may have a slightly different Scheiner sensitivity in contemporary Leitz publications. In early 1931 Curt Emmermann lists many competing Leica-films. One can see that Emmermann still prefers the Perutz Fliegerfilm (AKA Perutz Leica Spezialfilm), but by now this has much become his personal preference. Other Leica users may have good reasons to prefer a competing film from Agfa, Gevaert, Mimosa, or Hauff. Emmermann even has to admit that in terms of film speed the new panchromatic Agfa films are in pole position for available light photography, even as the higher speed comes at the cost of a coarser grain. In December 1930 Dr Walther Heering has the same analysis. In his overview of Leica films, he still gives pride of place to the Perutz Feinkorn Antihalo film (similar to the Perutz Fliegerfilm, but with a backing against flare). At the same time, he mentions ‘the good Leica films’ by Agfa, Gevaert and Mimosa. To conclude with: ‘Wir haben ganz ideale Leica-Filme’ [‘We have quite ideal Leica films’.] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #692 Posted June 6 How to put this Agfa-Perutz competition in a time line? In my analysis Agfa had a number 1 position for (Ur-)Leica photography up to 1922. One reason was its monopoly position on the German market in the period 1914-1922. A second reason was the increasingly high quality of the Agfa Flieger films during 1915-1918. Unfortunately, this high quality came at the cost of a limited shelve life. Because of these poor keeping properties, the Agfa Fliegerfilm was not suitable for amateur use and had to be discontinued after 1918. In the period 1922-1924 Agfa was still market leader, but faced competition from Goerz (1922), Lignose (1923) and Toxo (1924). Comments by Prof. Klute (Alan, thank you for sharing this information) and Dr Paul Wolff indicate that the quality of the films available in 1923-1924 was not yet up to the mark. This must have changed with the Toxo film of 1924. This film must have convinced Ernst Leitz II to decide in favour of Leica production in June 1924. The Toxo film was used for the highly favourable Leica review by Willy Frerk in March 1925. Willy Frerk mentions that he obtained his Leica with three pre-loaded cassettes containing this Toxo film. This suggests that in March 1925 Leitz itself pre-loaded the cassettes and chose the Toxo film as the best available film. In this 1922-1925 period Perutz was a latecomer Perutz may have tried to introduce 35mm film in late 1922, but this attempt was not successful. This part of the Perutz-Leica-paradox requires some explanation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #693 Posted June 6 In the 1910s and 1920s the production of 35mm film still was a high-tech affair. [Similar to present-day chip technology] The main complication was the production of a high quality and chemically neutral film base in lengths of 100-120m. Only a few producers had this know-how, including Kodak, Agfa, Gevaert and Goerz. But these producers may not have been eager to supply an innovative newcomer/ competitor. In case Perutz wanted to enter the 35mm market, it would depend on a neutral external supplier. As said before, in the 1910s and 1920 there is a rich German photo literature on sensitometry. Authors like Prof. Neugebauer would periodically test the available dry plates and films on the German market. Now in the tests of 1919, 1922 and 1923 the Perutz dry plates (Silber Eosinplatte, Fliegerplatte, Grünsiegelplatte) are among the best performers in terms of sensitivity to the colour yellow. But Perutz is not included in the film tests! This is puzzling. In the period 1919-1923 Perutz had the best emulsions, but produced no films. In 1925-1926 Perutz suddenly introduced the best Leica films. How to explain this Perutz-Leica paradox? For this we have to look carefully at a Perutz announcement from August 1922. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #694 Posted June 6 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378437-100-years-null-serie/?do=findComment&comment=5813278'>More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #695 Posted June 6 Translation in English of the August 1922 text above: “Before the outbreak of the war, the Perutz Company had decided to start producing film on a large scale, whereas in previous years it had only produced sheet and roll film in small quantities. Under pressure and on request of her customers at home and abroad and especially of the Bavarian film industry, she tackled the work and hopes to be able to appear on the market with films in a few months’ time.” Note that in August 1922 Perutz speaks of pre-war intentions, that would finally materialize in the second half of 1922. In August 1922 there is no claim that Perutz already produced 35mm film before 1922. Note as well that in August 1922 Perutz speaks of prospective film production in general. The first step in film production is the production of flat film. When this is successful, the second step is the production of roll film. When this milestone has been achieved as well, one can attempt the most difficult step: the production of perforated 35mm cine negative film in lengths of 100-120m. Unfortunately, the Perutz intentions for 1922 did not materialize. The French occupation of the Rhineland and the ensuing hyperinflation in Germany may well have sabotaged the link with the intended neutral supplier of the celluloid film base. In any case, the first news of ‘the long awaited’ Perutz film comes in late 1923; it concerns (as one would expect) flat film. This is followed by roll film in 1924 and by cine negative film in early 1925. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #696 Posted June 6 So, in April 1925 Perutz finally introduces a highly orthochromatic 35mm cine negative film on the German market. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378437-100-years-null-serie/?do=findComment&comment=5813282'>More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #697 Posted June 6 This new Perutz Grünsiegel film (green seal) is highly recommended in a Leica review of May 1925. The superiority of Perutz films gets another boost with the introduction of the Fliegerfilm in November 1926. For 1926 I depend on the Leitz pricelist that I obtained via Alan and Ulf Richter; I haven’t found the contemporary Perutz pricelist yet. In 1926 there is additional literature on Perutz cine negative films by Prof. Neugebauer and Curt Emmermann, but this is complex stuff. It seems that the very high sensitivity to yellow of the Perutz films upsets the measurement techniques used for the empirical analysis. Curt Emmermann finds extremely high values for the Perutz film. Prof. Neugebauer finds these values not realistic and suggests that Emmermann has made a beginner’s mistake. In 1927 the Perutz Fliegerfilm is used by Leica-photographer Anton Baumann. In 1928-1929 Leitz publicity is all about Perutz films. In 1930-1931 the dominant position of Perutz films starts to erode. Not because Perutz films deteriorate in quality, but because other manufacturers start producing films of similar or even higher quality. Agfa sets new standards in terms of film speed. And it would not take long before Agfa would introduce a colour film for Leica photography [see the next slide]. [This is covered in my article: The search for the ideal Leica film in the 1920s and 1930s] Roland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 6 Author Share #698 Posted June 6 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378437-100-years-null-serie/?do=findComment&comment=5813287'>More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 7 Author Share #699 Posted June 7 On 5/15/2025 at 10:44 PM, UliWer said: The statement by Zeiss about the 1:3.5/5cm Tessar for the Contax comes from a brochure: "Die zehn Objektive der Contax". It is undated, though it must have been published in the first years of the Contax. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! On p.24f they deal with the Tessar 1:3,5 f=5cm. The sentence after the semicolon on p.25: "...;denn auch das Contax-Tessar stellt - obwohl doch Tessare im allgemeinen bekannt waren und vielleicht als eine abgeschlossene Konstruktion gelten konnten - eine Sonderkonstruktion dar, die speziell dem Format 24x36mm angepasst ist." My translation: "..., even though Tessar lenses were well known and perhaps could be regarded as a completed design, the Contax-Tessar is a special design, explicitly adapted to the format of 24X36mm." (There is probably an English version of this brochure which has the official translation). As they make a point of calling the Contax-Tessar a "special" design ("Sonderkonstruktion") for the new format they also state that there older Tessar versions were not fulfilling the demands. The two last sentences on the page before explain: "It is rarely necessary to stop down the lens, as the Tessar even fully opened draws sharp into the outmost corners. Even though it seems to be self-evident, not all lenses have this feature; though with Contax lenses it is fulfilled with absolute guarantee; ..." (follow the statements I quoted above). UliWer, It is high time to thank you again for this primary source. It should be in my collection as well, but due to the reorganisation of my library I can not find it anymore. This brochure was translated in many languages! Now I feel this is not the brochure with the insulting texts that motivated Leitz to write the 1933 reply in Die Leica: Was ist eigentlich 'Elmar'?/ What is 'Elmar' all about? Leitz (1933) refers in the first paragragh to a Zeiss Ikon brochure that was distributed to amateurs and the photo trade. In this brochure the Elmar lens must have been explicitely mentioned as an inferior if not illegal Tessar-copy. The brochure very likely has the noun 'Auklärung' = clarification in its title. The third page of Leitz (1933) has another clue. It suggests that the insulting Zeiss Ikon brochure is based on an article by Herrn Dr. Wolter in the photo magazine Photo-Spezialhändler. Leitz (1933) states that the misleading content of this article was used for the anonymous Zeiss Ikon brochure. How can we find this original Zeiss Ikon brochure? Or as a second best: the article By Dr. Wolter in the photo magazine Photo-Spezialhändler? I need to know the actual accusations made by Zeiss Ikon before I can fully understand the reply as presented in Leitz (1933). Roland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beoon Posted June 10 Share #700 Posted June 10 Roland, In the Hans-Gunter Kisselbach book about “Barnacks handmade prototype” he shows on page 188 contact prints of original negatives from Oskar Barnack. He dates these photos of the children from 1917? Alan Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378437-100-years-null-serie/?do=findComment&comment=5815734'>More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now