100 years Null-Serie

[Roland Zwiers]

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Alan,

This is very interesting information again.
But I would not immediately read: 16/6. 19
I would rather read: 12/6. 29

Look at the way the 1 in 12 is written.
It is the typical German way of writing 1 which looks like an inverted V.

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Compare the way in which the other 1's are written on this page.
They all have the inverted V-style.

Also note the German text Neu = new above the date 12/6. 29

This suggests a new design as compared to an older one.
But with the 1920 Anastigmat there was no older design.
Max Berek was doing completely new, something that not even Carl Zeiss Jena had attempted to do.

So all in all I am sceptical about a date in the year 1919.

Roland

 

 

Roland

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

Alan,

I also promised you to look at the fascinating handwritten notes by Oskar Barnack on how to expose an Agfa film/ Fliegerfilm.
It is my impression that the notes are from 1930-1931.
One of these days I can give you a full account of my research findings.

In a previous discussion with UliWer we found that some notes in Oskar Barnack's Werkstattbuch date from 1929.
This concerns the 'Codak Tuch' / the shutter curtains made or provided by Eastman Kodak.
It is possible that 1929 is also the year that the werkstattbuch was finished.
We would need to have full access to this source to be sure.

In that case after 1929 handwritten notes by Oskar Barnack would be made on seperate sheets of paper.
Like the notes that you presented on how to expose an Agfa film/ Fliegerfilm.

 

Roland

[jerzy]

some time ago Dirk Mann posted few pages/sheets showing parts of 4201 camnera. There was there as well another version of Anastigmat shown earlier. This sheet is numbered 170. But in the set shown by Dirk there was another lens, 5 elements Anastigmnat is Summar mount. This sheet has a number 163. Many of the drawings in the set shown by Dirk have a date May 1922, 5 elements Anastigmat however has a date 23.9.23. And handwriting is different than on other sheets.

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Edited June 4 by jerzy
correction of Blatt#

[Roland Zwiers]

Alan,

An earlier discussion with UliWer was about the closing down of the Goerz Sendlinger Glaswerk after the 1926 merger into Zeiss Ikon.

In a Leitz contribution in Die Leica of April 1933 (Was ist eigentlich 'Elmar'?/ what is Elmar all about?) it is specified that the new 4-element f/3,5 Anastigmat depended on new glass from the Goerz Sendlinger Glaswerk.
After the merger into Zeiss Ikon this optical glass factory was closed down.
And so Leitz was confronted with a supply shock as a crucial input was not available anymore.

Leitz (1933) states that not long after this a very similar optical glass was provided by Schott Jena.
And so it was possible to continue production of the 4-element Elmar lens with minor design changes.  

Is it possible that your document relates to this re-design of the Elmar lens?

 

Roland

  

 

[Roland Zwiers]

7 minutes ago, jerzy said:

some time ago Dirk Mann posted few pages/sheets showing parts of 4201 camnera. There was there as well another version of Anastigmat shown earlier. This sheet is numbered 170. But in the set shown by Dirk there was another lens, 5 elements Anastigmnat is Summar mount. This sheet has a number 163. Many of the drawings in the set shown by Dirk have a date May 1922, 5 elements Anastigmat however has a date 23.9.23. And handwriting is different than on other sheets.

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Jerzy,

Thank you for this interesting contribution.

The year 1923 on sheet 163 makes sense as it must refer to the 5-element anastigmat that was tested on the Null-Serie.
According to Leitz (1933) this 5-element anastigmat was a good lens, but somewhat expensive to produce.
And so new glass from the Goerz Sendlinger Glaswerk came in handy, as it allowed for a cheaper-to-produce 4-element equivalent.
This overlaps with my previous slide.

Roland

[beoon]

26 minutes ago, jerzy said:

some time ago Dirk Mann posted few pages/sheets showing parts of 4201 camnera. There was there as well another version of Anastigmat shown earlier. This sheet is numbered 170. But in the set shown by Dirk there was another lens, 5 elements Anastigmnat is Summar mount. This sheet has a number 163. Many of the drawings in the set shown by Dirk have a date May 1922, 5 elements Anastigmat however has a date 23.9.23. And handwriting is different than on other sheets.

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Hi Jerzy,

The signature and date 23.9.23 on your lens drawing aligns with a drawing by Schafer 1 dated 23.6.23 for the Kleinfilmkamera (first Null Series cameras with the fold up finder).

Gianni Rogliatti reproduced a set of 3 early drawings in 1980 (my set is No 9 and signed by Rogliatti in the attached photo)

Alan

[willeica]

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2 hours ago, Roland Zwiers said:

somehow was reworked into Null-Serie No 105?

Certainly not. He tells the same story about Prototype No 2 that we know to be true about No 105. He does not claim that they are/were the same camera, modified or otherwise. The confusion is in the stories and not in the cameras. However 105 exists and we are still uncertain about whether there were one or two Ur-Leica prototypes and which is the one in the Leica Museum. 

 

2 hours ago, beoon said:

Roland,

Here is a Leitz factory technical drawing with hand written notation "12/6: 19"

This might be the initial lens design by Max Berek for a Null Series prototype (Anastigmat lens 4 elements in 3 groups)?

We know that a patent No 343 086 for the original Anastigmat lens was submitted on 9th October 1920 (drawing from patent attached).

I am not an optical expert and the technical drawing looks like it has been drawn at a later date than the hand written date would indicate?

Certainly this technical drawing looks similar to the patent application drawing?

Any later technical drawings I have seen (post 1925) have the factory internal reference number assigned for the Leica camera of 4201 on the drawing.

This technical drawing is courtesy of Dirk Mann.

I welcome input from others regarding this drawing

Alan

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Thanks, Alan. The earliest blueprint I have is this one from 22.9.23. There is a reference here to the Summar 64. This was part of a lot of blueprints that were sold for €48,000 on the same day as No 105

William 

[Roland Zwiers]

Alan, Bill, Jerzy, UliWer, William, 

It is fasinating to share all this information.
I feel in this way we are making a lot of progress in a very short period of time!

As promised I will now comment on the exposure table by Oskar barnack that was presented by Alan.
I will first give the executive summary.
Then I will give the necessary background information so that you can see how I arrived at my conclusions.
As there is a lot of relevant background information to share, I do not know if I can finish in one hour.

But I will do my best. 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

Executive summery on Oskar Barnack's exposure table

The document presented by Alan has handwritten notes by Oskar Barnack

·       from 1930-1931

·       to a user of a Leica I camera

·       with shutter speeds of 1/25, 1/40 and 1/60sec
       (according to Van Hasbroeck this applies to the first batch of 500 Leica I cameras)

·       and a 1:3,5 lens

·       on how to expose two different but similar films in bright sunshine

·       with and without a light yellow 1 filter (with a filter factor of 2x).

·       Very likely the two films are an Agfa Panchromatic film and a Perutz (Spezial) Fliegerfilm,
        both with an overall sensitivity of 18 Scheiner (6 ISO)

[Roland Zwiers]

Copy of the original document

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[Roland Zwiers]

Transscription in German

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[Roland Zwiers]

Translation in English

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[Roland Zwiers]

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[Roland Zwiers]

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[Roland Zwiers]

In 1924 Toxo Kino Film (cine positive and cine negative film) was introduced on the German market.

This Toxo cine negative film must have allowed a postcard sized enlargement from a 24x36mm negative that was equally sharp as a postcard sized contact print of a larger negative.
This must have helped Ernst Leitz II to make his June 1924 go-ahead decision.
The Toxo film was used by Willy Frerk for his Leica review of March 1925.

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[Roland Zwiers]

Perutz was a latecomer with roll film and 35mm film.
But once Perutz arrived on the scene, it offered a superior product.
Both in terms of grain and in terms of orthochromatism.
I call this the Perutz-Leica paradox.
This is a chapter in my manuscript of June 2023.

In May 1925 the new Perutz Grünsiegelfilm (green label) was recommended in another early Leica review for its high orthochromatism.

In November 1926 the Perutz Fliegerfilm appears in a Leitz catalogue.
This Flieger film achieves colour correct results with a Leitz yellow filter 1 with a filter factor of 2x.

I owe the November 1926 Leitz catalogue both to Alan and Ulf Richter. 

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In 1927 one can find the first Leica pictures with this Perutz Fliegerfilm by Anton Baumann in a German photo magazine.

[Roland Zwiers]

Considerations

What year for Oskar Barnack's handwritten notes?

The Agfa Fliegerfilm must have been discontinued after 1918.
The Versailles Treaty did not allow Germany to keep an air force.

So, in Germany there was no demand for a specialised aerial reconnaissance film anymore.
A film, moreover, with poor keeping properties as it had to fulfil conflicting demands in terms of grain, speed and orthochromatism.
Such a Fliegerfilm was not suitable for amateur use.

So we can exclude the period 1915-1918 

f/3,5 in the exposure table indicates 1923 or later.
The Null-Serie of 1923 used the 5-element 1:3,5 f=50mm Anastigmat

So we can exclude pre-1923 as well

The Perutz Fliegerfilm was introduced in November 1926.
The Leitz catalogue also includes the dedicated yellow filters 1, 2 and 3

Filter 1 has a very low 2x factor in combination with the highly orthochromatic Fliegerfilm.
This exposure factor is the same as in Oskar Barnack's handwritten notes!

Filter 2 has a higher filter factor in view of the slightly less orgtochromatic Perutz Grünsiegelfilm.

Filter 3 is designed for less orthochromatic black-and-white films on the German market.

So here were are getting on firmer ground.
The Perutz Fliegerfilm of November 1926 has a filter factor of 2.
In accordance with the handwritten notes by Oskar Barnack!

This implies that the earliest date for the handwritten notes is November 1926.
 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

How to balance the Agfa and Flieger films in Oskar Barnack's exposure table?

Oskar Barnack is explicit that his exposure table is both valid for a Fliegerfilm and for an Agfa film.
Both in terms of overall sensitivity to sunlight (without a filter)
and in terms of sensitivity to the colour yellow (the same filterfactor 2 in combination with a Leitz yellow filter 1)

So all I have to do is to follow the relative progress of Agfa films after November 1926.
As said before, during 1914-1923 or so Agfa used to have a monopoly position on the German market.

The first new competitors were Goerz (1922), Lignose (1923) and Toxo (1924).
In 1925 Perutz was already a latecomer.
But in my Perutz-Leica paradox, Perutz immediately took pole position in terms of suitability for leica-photography.
This pole position became even more pronounced with the introduction of the Perutz (Spezial) fliegerfilm in November 1926.

Now it is also importnat to know that producers like Agfa and Gevaert were catching up fast.
When one sticks to Perutz advertisements, then Perutz was forever the number 1 Leica film.
This is an overstatement.
Dr Paul Wolff certainly did not agree. [this is the subject of a different article]
But other producers were catching up rapidly in terms of fine grain and high orthochomatiscm as well.
Gevaert historians observe that the Perutz advantage lasted one year only.

So at this stage my research question becomes:

When can I find an Agfa film that is equal to the Perutz Fliegerfilm in terms of film speed and in sensitivity to the colour yellow?
so that Oskar Barnack, when giving instructions for exposure with and without a yellow filter, can write:
these instructions apply to both the fliegerfilm and the Agfa film.  

This happens for the first time in early 1931 in a review by Curt Emmermann.
According to Emmermann both the Agfa Panchromatic film D and the Perutz Fliegerfilm have an overall sensitivity of 18 Scheiner.
According to Emmermann both the Agfa Panchromatic film D and the Perutz Fliegerfilm require a 2x yellow filter so as to yield colour-correct results in black-and-white.

Roland

in Curt Emmermann (early 1931).

Equal overall sensitivity of 18 Scheiner.

 

    

[beoon]

Roland,

For your information

The Leitz General Catalogue dated July 1930 seems to be the last time a specific film is listed with a Leitz codeword (all films listed are Perutz films).

August 1931 booklet "Hints on the use of Leitz Leica Camera" details more information on all available films and their development.

The Leitz General Catalogue dated November 1931 does not list any specific film types, but only carries a paragraph "Negative Film"

Alan

July 1930

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August 1931

Edited June 5 by beoon

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[willeica]

8 hours ago, Roland Zwiers said:

How to balance the Agfa and Flieger films in Oskar Barnack's exposure table?

Oskar Barnack is explicit that his exposure table is both valid for a Fliegerfilm and for an Agfa film.
Both in terms of overall sensitivity to sunlight (without a filter)
and in terms of sensitivity to the colour yellow (the same filterfactor 2 in combination with a Leitz yellow filter 1)

So all I have to do is to follow the relative progress of Agfa films after November 1926.
As said before, during 1914-1923 or so Agfa used to have a monopoly position on the German market.

The first new competitors were Goerz (1922), Lignose (1923) and Toxo (1924).
In 1925 Perutz was already a latecomer.
But in my Perutz-Leica paradox, Perutz immediately took pole position in terms of suitability for leica-photography.
This pole position became even more pronounced with the introduction of the Perutz (Spezial) fliegerfilm in November 1926.

Now it is also importnat to know that producers like Agfa and Gevaert were catching up fast.
When one sticks to Perutz advertisements, then Perutz was forever the number 1 Leica film.
This is an overstatement.
Dr Paul Wolff certainly did not agree. [this is the subject of a different article]
But other producers were catching up rapidly in terms of fine grain and high orthochomatiscm as well.
Gevaert historians observe that the Perutz advantage lasted one year only.

So at this stage my research question becomes:

When can I find an Agfa film that is equal to the Perutz Fliegerfilm in terms of film speed and in sensitivity to the colour yellow?
so that Oskar Barnack, when giving instructions for exposure with and without a yellow filter, can write:
these instructions apply to both the fliegerfilm and the Agfa film.  

This happens for the first time in early 1931 in a review by Curt Emmermann.
According to Emmermann both the Agfa Panchromatic film D and the Perutz Fliegerfilm have an overall sensitivity of 18 Scheiner.
According to Emmermann both the Agfa Panchromatic film D and the Perutz Fliegerfilm require a 2x yellow filter so as to yield colour-correct results in black-and-white.

Roland

in Curt Emmermann (early 1931).

Equal overall sensitivity of 18 Scheiner.

 

    

Roland, I linked you up with Mark Osterman who is doing experiments with 'period' film in a I Model A. He is ex Eastman Museum, so his knowledge might come from the Kodak side of things. Did you do any exchange of information with him about this, in particular about available in period film types and the use of yellow filters? By coincidence I picked up a set of Leitz yellow filters at auction recently. I must test them for appropriate filter factor (exposure compensation).  They are now almost 100 years old, so there may have some change in light transmission properties.

Leica now has a darkroom in the archive in Wetzlar and I believe they have used some film in early Leicas from 1925 (possibly Nos 554 and 555) in the past two weeks and processed it in their own darkroom. I believe also that the UR-Leica was taken out of its cavern for filming at the same time, but putting film through that probably would not be possible at this stage. What they were doing was making films of all of this (using a 16mm Bolex no less) to show at the forthcoming celebrations. Alan, Bill and myself will be in Wetzlar later this month and we look at what is there and ask questions. 

I must presume that you have seen this

https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Colour_Darkroom/Early_Perutz.html

William