100 years Null-Serie

[beoon]

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2 hours ago, Roland Zwiers said:

Alan,

 

Thank you for this relevant information.

If Oskar Barnack refers to this in his work notes (Werkstattbuch) then the book can only have been finalized around 1929.
This is later than I expected.

It again shows how important it is to have access to the complete manuscript.

 

Roland

 

Roland,

Attached is a letter sent to Leica Photography USA, October 1933 from the owner of No 204 who purchased the camera in 1928 from the original owner and replaced the shutter cloth material in 1929.

Here is also a bit more detail regarding the suggestion from Leitz NY to the factory to use the Graflex rubberised cloth.

Leitz NY sales people found reluctance to get dealers to stock the early Leicas due to its high cost.

Early cameras sold to individuals developed a problem where the rubber on the shutter cloth deteriorated and became sticky.

The factory was advised, but they had not encountered this issue, they sent replacement parts, but the problem occurred again after a few months.

Leitz NY fitted the Graflex rubberised cloth to one of their cameras and also sent a sample to the factory.

The factory management responded threatening to remove the US distribution right from them because they fitted non Leitz factory parts.

A few weeks later the factory requested Leitz NY to send them 200 yards of the Graflex rubberised cloth.

This Graflex cloth was then used in production by the factory, the production dates are not known, but I would imagine it was circa 1926?

Regards

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited May 16 by beoon

[Roland Zwiers]

18 minutes ago, beoon said:

Roland,

Attached is a letter sent to Leica Photography USA, October 1933 from the owner of No 204 who purchased the camera in 1928 from the original owner and replaced the shutter cloth material in 1929.

Here is also a bit more detail regarding the suggestion from Leitz NY to the factory to use the Graflex rubberised cloth.

Leitz NY sales people found reluctance to get dealers to stock the early Leicas due to its high cost.

Early cameras sold to individuals developed a problem where the rubber on the shutter cloth deteriorated and became sticky.

The factory was advised, but they had not encountered this issue, they sent replacement parts, but the problem occurred again after a few months.

Leitz NY fitted the Graflex rubberised cloth to one of their cameras and also sent a sample to the factory.

The factory management responded threatening to remove the US distribution right from them because they fitted non Leitz factory parts.

A few weeks later the factory requested Leitz NY to send them 200 yards of the Graflex rubberised cloth.

This Graflex cloth was then used in production by the factory, the production dates are not known, but I would imagine it was circa 1926?

Regards

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Alan,

Again you provide very valuable information! Thank you for sharing this!

#204 is a very early Leica I.

I have no access to my manuscript now, but #204 must have been part of the first batch of 500 cameras that were engraved in December 1924 for further assembly in early 1925.

This is covered in detail in my stock-and-flow chart for 1924-1926. 

In this chart I link the bodies to the available lenses, but not to the Fodis rangefinders. Work notes by Oskar Barnack suggest that the first 850 Leica I cameras were complemented by some 775 rangefinders. I have to check this when I am home again.

Roland 

[sandro]

7 hours ago, Roland Zwiers said:

In my working hypothesis Dr Paul Wolff also used a Null-Serie Leica for a 1924 instruction book on ski-ing.
[J. Dahinden, Die Ski-Schule]
The quality of the Dr Paul Wolff  pictures is even more disappointing than the 1923 pictures by Prof. Klute.

So who knows Dr Paul Wolff was ashamed of himself when he compared his very poor results
[which he blamed on the Null-Serie Leica in his feed-back to Oskar Barnack!]
with those of Prof. Klute.

Roland

 

 

 

Roland, the book Die Ski-Schule dates from 1924, although Ed Schwartzreich only mentions the 1925 edition. According to Ed Schwartzreich the photographs by Paul Wolff in this book were not taken with a Leica because of the poor resolution "and neither composition nor lighting is up to the standard of Dr. Wolff's large format shots" (The Photo Books of Dr. Paul Wolff: an annotated Bibliography, revised ed. 2018, p.9). The images presumably by Wolff my actually be printed film-stills, as mentioned also by Heiting/Lemke.

Lex

Edited May 16 by sandro

[Roland Zwiers]

Lex,

Ed and me have discussed the possibility that some pictures in this book have been taken with a Null-Serie Leica still.

I have the 1924 edition of this book as well. The majority of the Dr Paul Wolff pictures must have been printed from cine frames; the quality is so bad that I wonder whether or not he used 35mm film for 18x24mm frames. Maybe he used a subminiature movie camera. The pictures that would qualify as Null-Serie pictures look much better,  maybe similar to the Prof Klute pictures of 1923. I have to look again.

Even if the majority of the pictures derive from a subminiature movie camera, the Null-Serie Leica could have been loaded with the same film! Agfa would have produced the same cine negative film in various formats.

Roland 

 

 

 

[derleicaman]

Its very interesting to read about the very poor results that Dr. Wolff was getting with the early Leica. We all know the concept of the camera was sound, but the emulsions available in the early days were not up to snuff. I don't think many people realize how important the symbiosis between the camera/lens and the film stock available was. Roland, you have done a lot of work in this area.

It is interesting to note the problems Mark Osterman is having with his project of reproducing the early 35mm emulsion he has coated himself onto film stock. He is a retired expert from the George Eastman House who specializes in film emulsions. I have been following his story with interest on his Face Book feed. At this point, not sure if the problems he is having are with the film base stock he is using, the FILCA cassette or the camera itself which was serviced by DAG.

Again, those of us using M cameras with modern emulsions do not realize just how difficult the early days were. Having owned and operated a film processing lab from the 80's through 2002, I saw incredible progress in color negative films from Kodak and Fuji in those days. The only film stock that was consistently good was Kodachrome, which was my favored film to use for my own photography. Even the Kodachrome slides that my dad took with his Leica in the 1950's are still as sharp and bright as when they were first taken and processed! In the digital age, we have lost sight of all of this.

[Roland Zwiers]

9 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Its very interesting to read about the very poor results that Dr. Wolff was getting with the early Leica. We all know the concept of the camera was sound, but the emulsions available in the early days were not up to snuff. I don't think many people realize how important the symbiosis between the camera/lens and the film stock available was. Roland, you have done a lot of work in this area.

It is interesting to note the problems Mark Osterman is having with his project of reproducing the early 35mm emulsion he has coated himself onto film stock. He is a retired expert from the George Eastman House who specializes in film emulsions. I have been following his story with interest on his Face Book feed. At this point, not sure if the problems he is having are with the film base stock he is using, the FILCA cassette or the camera itself which was serviced by DAG.

Again, those of us using M cameras with modern emulsions do not realize just how difficult the early days were. Having owned and operated a film processing lab from the 80's through 2002, I saw incredible progress in color negative films from Kodak and Fuji in those days. The only film stock that was consistently good was Kodachrome, which was my favored film to use for my own photography. Even the Kodachrome slides that my dad took with his Leica in the 1950's are still as sharp and bright as when they were first taken and processed! In the digital age, we have lost sight of all of this.

Bill,

Thank you for your kind words.

But there are still so many contradictions to solve about 35mm film in the period 1910-1925.

In 1931 Oskar Barnack writes that in 1912 he could get presentable postcard sized enlargements from a cine 18x24mm frame. The results by Prof Klute in 1923 are just presentable, even though he used a negative of 24x36mm. No progress over this decade?

Oskar Barnack mentions the fine grain of cine negative fillm as compared to plates. In pre-war literature one can find this claim more often. But in 1928 the same claim is angrily rejected by Curt Emmermann after extensive microscopic research.

Also，how to explain the success of the Minnigraph of 1915? Oskar Barnack saw a prototype of this camera for testing it with a 1:3,5 Mikro Tessar. This again suggests that the quality of 35mm film in 1912-1915 was good enough for introducing a half frame photo camera. 

Then again Ernemann introduced another half frame photo camera in 1924 or so. This suggests some continuity as to the viability of this half frame format. How could this be if the quality of Leica film only reached a critical level around 1924-1925?

In my working hypothesis it was the Toxo cine negative film of 1924 that finally allowed a sharp postcard sized enlargement that was not distinguishable from a contact print of a postcard sized negative. This must have been an important consideration for Ernst Leitz II in his June 1924 go/ no go consideration.

Then around March 1925 we have the Perutz Grunsiegel emulsion. This film is reviewed in May 1925 and praised for its orthochromatic quality. In the second half of 1926 appears the Perutz Fliegerfilm. This is the first film that becomes famous for its especially fine grain.

This story line assumes very rapid improvements in the quality of cine negative film in the period 1924-1926, so after the Null-Serie Leica period.

But I can still not fully understand everything. Most important: have there been high quality 35mm films in the period 1910-1915 as well?

Were these from non-Geman producers, so unavailable to Barnack in the period 1914-1926?

Were the Agfa Fliegerfilms of 1915-1918 temporarily of high quality because of their use in German aerial reconnaissance cameras?

Did Oskar Barnack remember wrongly?

Does it all depend on the definition of ' presentable '?

 

Roland 

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

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11 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Its very interesting to read about the very poor results that Dr. Wolff was getting with the early Leica. We all know the concept of the camera was sound, but the emulsions available in the early days were not up to snuff. I don't think many people realize how important the symbiosis between the camera/lens and the film stock available was. Roland, you have done a lot of work in this area.

It is interesting to note the problems Mark Osterman is having with his project of reproducing the early 35mm emulsion he has coated himself onto film stock. He is a retired expert from the George Eastman House who specializes in film emulsions. I have been following his story with interest on his Face Book feed. At this point, not sure if the problems he is having are with the film base stock he is using, the FILCA cassette or the camera itself which was serviced by DAG.

Again, those of us using M cameras with modern emulsions do not realize just how difficult the early days were. Having owned and operated a film processing lab from the 80's through 2002, I saw incredible progress in color negative films from Kodak and Fuji in those days. The only film stock that was consistently good was Kodachrome, which was my favored film to use for my own photography. Even the Kodachrome slides that my dad took with his Leica in the 1950's are still as sharp and bright as when they were first taken and processed! In the digital age, we have lost sight of all of this.

Bill,

Thank you for your kind words.

But there are still so many contradictions to solve about 35mm film in the period 1910-1925.

In 1931 Oskar Barnack writes that in 1912 he could get presentable postcard sized enlargements from a cine 18x24mm frame. The results by Prof Klute in 1923 are just presentable, even though he used a negative of 24x36mm. No progress over this decade?

Oskar Barnack mentions the fine grain of cine negative fillm as compared to plates. In pre-war literature one can find this claim more often. But in 1928 the same claim is angrily rejected by Curt Emmermann after extensive microscopic research.

Also，how to explain the success of the Minnigraph of 1915? Oskar Barnack saw a prototype of this camera for testing it with a 1:3,5 Mikro Tessar. This again suggests that the quality of 35mm film in 1912-1915 was good enough for introducing a half frame photo camera. 

Then again Ernemann introduced another half frame photo camera in 1924 or so. This suggests some continuity as to the viability of this half frame format. How could this be if the quality of Leica film only reached a critical level around 1924-1925?

In my working hypothesis it was the Toxo cine negative film of 1924 that finally allowed a sharp postcard sized enlargement that was not distinguishable from a contact print of a postcard sized negative. This must have been an important consideration for Ernst Leitz II in his June 1924 go/ no go consideration.

Then around March 1925 we have the Perutz Grunsiegel emulsion. This film is reviewed in May 1925 and praised for its orthochromatic quality. In the second half of 1926 appears the Perutz Fliegerfilm. This is the first film that becomes famous for its especially fine grain.

This story line assumes very rapid improvements in the quality of cine negative film in the period 1924-1926, so after the Null-Serie Leica period.

But I can still not fully understand everything. Most important: have there been high quality 35mm films in the period 1910-1915 as well?

Were these from non-Geman producers, so unavailable to Barnack in the period 1914-1926?

Were the Agfa Fliegerfilms of 1915-1918 temporarily of high quality because of their use in German aerial reconnaissance cameras?

Did Oskar Barnack remember wrongly?

Does it all depend on the definition of ' presentable '?

 

Roland 

 

For 1:3,5 Mikro Tessar read:

1:3,5 Kino Tessar.

A colleague of Oskar Barnack in his Zeiss Palmos years recollects that Barnack received a (prototype) Minnigraph in 1906-1907 so as to fit it with a 1:3,5 Kino Tessar. As explained before, in 1907 the original 1:6,3 Tessar was complemented by two new Tessar designs. A 1:3,5 design optimized for an angle of 35 degrees. And a 1:4,5 design optimized for an angle of 55 degrees. As cine cameras preferred a standard lens with a relatively long focal length, it was logical to scale the 1:3,5 design to f=50mm so as to capture an assured market for cinematography.

Note that this 1:3,5 Kino Tessar was optimized for the image circle of the 18x24mm cine frame. This means that it almost covers a 24x24mm frame as well, but not a 24x36 or 24x38mm frame. Oskar Barnack must surely have tested the 1:3,5 Kino Tessar on the Ur-Leica, only to find out serious loss of quality on the left and right sides of the negative.

 

Roland 

[beoon]

I will post a Facebook link here to a post about an original Oskar Barnack 35mm negative strip.

For those who don’t have a Facebook account I will paste in the text and photo.

Please note that Rolf Fricke who owned the negative strip sadly passed away last week.

Regards

Alan Stokes

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1Epu1FAnL7/?mibextid=WC7FNe

 

“A Holy Relic of 35 mm Photography. 1914 Barnack Negatives. 

Oscar and Julie Fricke were over to the house today. He brought me an early roll of 35 mm film collected by his father, Rolf who passed away earlier this week. Rolf was a serious collector of rare Leica artifacts, not just the cameras and associated equipment but the esoterica that historians like me love seeing. This particular roll of uncut film was exposed and developed by Oscar Barnack, inventor of the Leica camera, in 1914 with his prototype making it some of the earliest 35 mm still camera negatives. Leica eventually introduced the camera to the public in 1925. Inspecting this rare film is invaluable for my current research in making the same film used by Barnack.”

 

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Edited May 17 by beoon

[Roland Zwiers]

Alan,

Thank you.

Sad news that Rolf Fricke has passed away. I will contact Rolf when I am home again.

Early Oskar Barnack negatives are extremely rare. I hope that the entire film strip is made available.

When we visited the Leitz Museum Archive in 2023, I could spend some time looking at the remaining Oskar Barnack negatives. It was my impression that most negatives had been copied on a later safety film, that is a 35mm film that does not use the highly inflamable nitro-celluloid film base. Agfa and Kodak had been working at safety films from the 1910s onwards, but it took a long time before they could replace the regular nitro-celluloid film.

So Oskar Barnack used cine negative film that was highly perishable. That must be the reason that original negatives were copied on safety film at a later stage. The Werkstattbuch has several references to copying devices.

I really hope that in the collection of Rolf Fricke we can find more examples of early Oskar Barnack negatives.

Roland 

[beoon]

Another image from the UR Leica 1914 35mm film 

 

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[derleicaman]

6 hours ago, beoon said:

Another image from the UR Leica 1914 35mm film 

 

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Absolutely amazing! I have images similar to these when the townspeople from our village in Germany were called up, my grandfather and his three brothers being among them. You have to wonder how many of these simple folk were consumed by the war machine.

[willeica]

I heard about these a few days ago. They are the property of the Fricke family, but it would be nice if they were in an archive where they might be available to researchers. I have had some correspondence with Mark Osterman about a project in which he intends to recreate the film stock of the 1920s and use it in a I Model A. In that context, I introduced him to Roland who has researched the film stocks of that era. Mark who used to work at the Eastman Museum and also did some work in Ireland and we corresponded about that as well. 

The finding of original film stock from this era is important. I have found that generally early film does not have details of the film stock on the margins. It might be possible to do a snip test on the stock to determine the materials used. The other point which someone has raised is that original Ur-Leica images were 24x38mm, but checking these on screen shows them to be approximately the classic 24x 36mm. Barnack did make a change in the format early on. Whoever has these can measure the negatives more precisely than I have done. The other detective piece is in identifying the events recorded on the film and using that to identify the date of the taking/creation the images. I have some experience of doing that myself.

William 

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, willeica said:

The other point which someone has raised is that original Ur-Leica images were 24x38mm, but checking these on screen shows them to be approximately the classic 24x 36mm. Barnack did make a change in the format early on. Whoever has these can measure the negatives more precisely than I have done.

There isn't enough width available for 24x38, assuming it has 8-perforation frame spacing. 8 perf is 37.2mm, if Wikipedia is correct.

[willeica]

24 minutes ago, BernardC said:

There isn't enough width available for 24x38, assuming it has 8-perforation frame spacing. 8 perf is 37.2mm, if Wikipedia is correct.

Let's just say approx. I'd need to have the negatives to measure correctly. Anyway Barnack settled on 24x36 which is what we seem to have here. Another issue is whether these are original or copies made for safety/security purposes. Mark Osterman is fully qualified to check all of this out. 

William 

[willeica]

I've heard from the Leica Archive. They have heard from Mark Osterman and they believe the first image is possibly from the Ur-Leica.

What they said was:

" First one, probably Barnack’s roll of film. Second ones, negatives from Dr. Henri Dumur. We’d be happy to know more, and get the scans, if it would be possible to unroll the film without damages – handling such an old negative is a real challenge.

Since we have original Barnack’s negatives in Leica Archive, I would say, that the first one more like taken with Ur-Leica, and the size of the frame is about 25mm x 37,5mm *it was bigger, almost without a margins between the frames and to perforation. The second one from Dumur perhaps from 0-series or Leica I, where they came to a standard 24x36."

If I get time over the next few weeks I will reach out to Oscar Fricke and Mark Osterman as I will be in Wetzlar at the end of June for the 100th Anniversary Celebrations, and will be visiting the Archive. Mark has been working with the Archive in connection with his attempts to recreate the type of film that was in use at the time of the early I Model As. 

I will revert with anything that emerges. 

William 

[derleicaman]

On 5/23/2025 at 11:34 AM, willeica said:

I heard about these a few days ago. They are the property of the Fricke family, but it would be nice if they were in an archive where they might be available to researchers. I have had some correspondence with Mark Osterman about a project in which he intends to recreate the film stock of the 1920s and use it in a I Model A. In that context, I introduced him to Roland who has researched the film stocks of that era. Mark who used to work at the Eastman Museum and also did some work in Ireland and we corresponded about that as well. 

The finding of original film stock from this era is important. I have found that generally early film does not have details of the film stock on the margins. It might be possible to do a snip test on the stock to determine the materials used. The other point which someone has raised is that original Ur-Leica images were 24x38mm, but checking these on screen shows them to be approximately the classic 24x 36mm. Barnack did make a change in the format early on. Whoever has these can measure the negatives more precisely than I have done. The other detective piece is in identifying the events recorded on the film and using that to identify the date of the taking/creation the images. I have some experience of doing that myself.

William 

Hi William, you took the words out of my mouth. Looking at the images should be helpful in dating them. In my opinion, the orginal and the second image were taken during the same time period, not ten years apart. I'm not sure if these kids were emulating their elders who were entering service, or it was some kind of youth organization. I'll ask Frank Heymel if he has any insight into this.

[derleicaman]

I have heard back from Frank Heymel. He works at Leitz Park in Customer Care and was working in the Archiv a few years ago. He is somewhat of an authority on the Imperial German Army from the period of 1914-1918. He has seen the images that Mark Osterman has posted on Facebook. He says that both images were taken in the 1914-1918 time period, earlier rather than later. He said that military style dress for kids that we see in the second image was very popular at the time. Therefore, he feels strongly that these were taken with the Ur or one of the other pre-Null Serie cameras that Barnack was working with. Not in the 1920's during the Null Serie cameras as was speculated for the second photo.

[derleicaman]

Looking more closely at the two images, I think they were taken at the same time with the same camera. Notice the "weapons" in both images are wooden mock-ups. Looking at the scale of the "weapons" compared to those holding them, they are kids, not adults. If you look at the first image, take note of the people on the left side, facing the young "soldiers", they look like young girls with a mother or teacher standing in the middle. On the next frame are some older boys wearing hats. No adult military to be seen. My guess is these images were taken in the fall of 1914, as mobilization was in August of 1914. As the trees still have all of their leafs, this makes it September or October of 1914. I would also suggest that perhaps one of these children is Barnack's son, Conrad! One has to ask, why Barnack would be taking pictures of these kids if one of them wasn't his?

Attached is an image of my grandfather in 1914 when he went off the fight in the Great War. He was from the area near Cologne. The second image is from later in the war after he had seen several years of fighting on the East Front. Luckily, he survived. My dad was born in 1927, and the family emigrated to the States in 1929. If he hadn't survived, I wouldn't be typing this today!

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Edited May 27 by derleicaman

[willeica]

12 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Looking more closely at the two images, I think they were taken at the same time with the same camera. Notice the "weapons" in both images are wooden mock-ups. Looking at the scale of the "weapons" compared to those holding them, they are kids, not adults. If you look at the first image, take note of the people on the left side, facing the young "soldiers", they look like young girls with a mother or teacher standing in the middle. On the next frame are some older boys wearing hats. No adult military to be seen. My guess is these images were taken in the fall of 1914, as mobilization was in August of 1914. As the trees still have all of their leafs, this makes it September or October of 1914. I would also suggest that perhaps one of these children is Barnack's son, Conrad! One has to ask, why Barnack would be taking pictures of these kids if one of them wasn't his?

Attached is an image of my grandfather in 1914 when he went off the fight in the Great War. He was from the area near Cologne. The second image is from later in the war after he had seen several years of fighting on the East Front. Luckily, he survived. My dad was born in 1927, and the family emigrated to the States in 1929. If he hadn't survived, I wouldn't be typing this today!

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Bill, both of us will be in Wetzlar at the end of June. Let’s see what we can see as regards early Barnack negatives, despite the crowds that will be there at that time. Barnack changed the format to 24x36 af some point. In the meantime we can ask Mark and Oscar about the dimensions of the various negatives which they have. The possibility of Conrad being in these images had occurred to me. We saw images of Conrad (how he spelt his name) and his sister when we were in the archive in 2023. 

 

The first shows Conrad as he might have been in 1914 and the second shows him, maybe 4 years later.  Second picture by Dumur or Leitz? For guidance on Conrad's appearance see here where a photo said to have been from the Summer of 1914 is shown.

https://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2024/11/the-children-of-oskar-barnack-inventor.html

On the negative frame dimensions, this is gone into in extreme detail at pages 44 - 48 of our Richter/Fricke book, but we don't have an exact date for the settling on 24x 36mm (approx). Here are two extracts which summarise the before and after situation.

Finally on Conrad, I was handed this actual book to read before the auction in 2022, but with my German being very poor I was only able to determine that Conrad referred to his father as 'Oscar' throughout, which , if you can recall, was an issue in the auction of No 105.

https://www.leitz-auction.com/en/Conrad-Barnack-Das-Buch-von-der-Leica/AI-40-40029

William 

Edited May 28 by willeica

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[beoon]

For anyone on here without access to Facebook, I will show an original Oskar Barnack handwritten note (in ink, not pencil as per his usual notes) regarding the use of Yellow Filters.

Facebook post is by Dirk Mann and his translation into English is also shown, he cannot guarantee 100% translation from the old German "script".

He states that the date of this document is unknown.

Since Barnack refers to apertures of f3,5 f4,5 f6,3 & f9 I assume he is using an "Anastigmat" 5 element in 3 groups lens from 1921 Max Berek design.

He records using shutter speeds of 1/25 1/40 & 1/60 so this may indicate a camera later than the "Null Series" which used slit widths and not shutter speeds.

Agfa "Fliegerfilm" is used and it is thought that this was still available in 1925?

Leitz Yellow Filter No2 "Filge" was available in 1925 , Leitz Yellow Filter No1 "Filby" was 1925/26

My guess is summer 1925?

Alan Stokes

 

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Edited May 28 by beoon