Leica Q3 Waitlist/Stock/Shipment

[mcqinternational]

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try phoning  , I put up the other day gwp photographer  shop seems  its gone .

[WaitListed]

I ordered my Q3 from B&H back in June because 1) no tax is charged when using their PayBoo card (which is about a $600 savings for me), and 2) they do not require a deposit when using a credit card (this may be different in other countries, but I thought their purchase process made this pretty clear).  However, after following the advice from others on this forum, I called a couple of Leica dealers in August and got on their lists.  As of today, I moved from being 22nd down to 11th on the list at a small Leica dealer about an hour away!  However, the owner said he's only getting a few cameras per shipment, so it may still be 4-6 weeks before I see anything (i.e., "no promises").  He said Leica is not providing him ANY info as to their distribution process, so he never knows how many he is going to get. HOWEVER, he noted that they are purposely fulfilling more demand for their Leica retail stores before the big box companies, so it makes perfect sense that you can get a Q3 from a Leica store before B&H or Adorama.  

My impatience dissipated when I made the mental leap to thinking of the Q3 as a "luxury" product versus a commodity like the Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras.  Leica is at max production and trying to keep customers engaged all across the world, so I'm sure their distribution process will be pretty inconsistent.  This is my first Leica, so I have come to learn that this is a luxury product, making the camera even more alluring and valuable due to its scarcity.  The only gaffe I see from Leica is SORELY misreading the demand and launching before having more product on-hand at the time of the launch.  The Q3 is currently behaving like a "made to order" product, so the concepts of inventory and In-Stock are misnomers.  However the issue Leica now faces is not understanding the true demand of the product, because they have forced everyone to place their bets in multiple orders at various stores, so the distribution of product will be off.  So in essence, this situation WAS and IS a Leica caused issue, exacerbated by their inability to upscale production to meet demand. The big box dealers are just as pissed about the situation as we are (think about the lost revenue and added support costs for taking all those questions about "where's my Q3?").  For me personally, internalizing the notion that the Q3 is a "luxury" item (which you generally would not purchase at a big box store), helps to reduce the animosity towards the process and enhances my excitement for getting the rare product when my turn comes!

(Well, all that and the fact that I just got back from my Croatia trip, so the urgency for getting the camera is no longer there. The Canon R5 produced amazing results, but it sure would have been a lot nicer carrying the smaller, lighter, Q3 all around the country instead of lugging that big ass Canon. 🙂 )  

 

[rayansb]

7 hours ago, WaitListed said:

I ordered my Q3 from B&H back in June because 1) no tax is charged when using their PayBoo card (which is about a $600 savings for me), and 2) they do not require a deposit when using a credit card (this may be different in other countries, but I thought their purchase process made this pretty clear).  However, after following the advice from others on this forum, I called a couple of Leica dealers in August and got on their lists.  As of today, I moved from being 22nd down to 11th on the list at a small Leica dealer about an hour away!  However, the owner said he's only getting a few cameras per shipment, so it may still be 4-6 weeks before I see anything (i.e., "no promises").  He said Leica is not providing him ANY info as to their distribution process, so he never knows how many he is going to get. HOWEVER, he noted that they are purposely fulfilling more demand for their Leica retail stores before the big box companies, so it makes perfect sense that you can get a Q3 from a Leica store before B&H or Adorama.  

My impatience dissipated when I made the mental leap to thinking of the Q3 as a "luxury" product versus a commodity like the Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras.  Leica is at max production and trying to keep customers engaged all across the world, so I'm sure their distribution process will be pretty inconsistent.  This is my first Leica, so I have come to learn that this is a luxury product, making the camera even more alluring and valuable due to its scarcity.  The only gaffe I see from Leica is SORELY misreading the demand and launching before having more product on-hand at the time of the launch.  The Q3 is currently behaving like a "made to order" product, so the concepts of inventory and In-Stock are misnomers.  However the issue Leica now faces is not understanding the true demand of the product, because they have forced everyone to place their bets in multiple orders at various stores, so the distribution of product will be off.  So in essence, this situation WAS and IS a Leica caused issue, exacerbated by their inability to upscale production to meet demand. The big box dealers are just as pissed about the situation as we are (think about the lost revenue and added support costs for taking all those questions about "where's my Q3?").  For me personally, internalizing the notion that the Q3 is a "luxury" item (which you generally would not purchase at a big box store), helps to reduce the animosity towards the process and enhances my excitement for getting the rare product when my turn comes!

(Well, all that and the fact that I just got back from my Croatia trip, so the urgency for getting the camera is no longer there. The Canon R5 produced amazing results, but it sure would have been a lot nicer carrying the smaller, lighter, Q3 all around the country instead of lugging that big ass Canon. 🙂 )  

 

Are any of your photos available online for public viewing?

[WaitListed]

1 hour ago, rayansb said:

Are any of your photos available online for public viewing?

Ha, I wish! We just got home and I have a few thousand images to cull through and edit.  Will be a couple of weeks before I post anything. We did catch a beautiful sunset in Zadar though (below).  Thanks for your interest!!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Le Chef]

Leica may not have misread demand at all. What they may not have wanted to do was recruit new staff, train them, correct them, and then 6 months later let them go. You can’t just bump up production and add new bodies to the line without consequences. There are also, I’m sure, EU rules for employment that say you can’t just hire and then dump them. You could switch employees from other lines, but then you having angry SL and M buyers.

Better for Leica to suck up the frustrations which will unwind and be forgotten in a year from now.

[WaitListed]

17 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

Leica may not have misread demand at all. What they may not have wanted to do was recruit new staff, train them, correct them, and then 6 months later let them go. You can’t just bump up production and add new bodies to the line without consequences. There are also, I’m sure, EU rules for employment that say you can’t just hire and then dump them. You could switch employees from other lines, but then you having angry SL and M buyers.

Better for Leica to suck up the frustrations which will unwind and be forgotten in a year from now.

Very plausible hypothesis, which led me to Google Leica's business strategy.  The following 1-page article documents some of Leica's earlier issues and new ownership.  In particular, it also notes exactly what I was referring to earlier:  "With help and consulting from Hermès, a number of strategies were adopted to give the company a clearer market orientation and to reposition it as a global luxury brand. One example was adopting a selective distribution strategy by opening owned stylish boutiques and stores."  https://www.sdabocconi.it/en/sda-bocconi-insight/management-cases/strategy-entrepreneurship--governance/leicas-long-journey-from-analog-to-digital

Honestly, I did not know this about Leica when I made my earlier post, but it all makes sense.  Limited availability is part of their luxury brand market strategy.

[Le Chef]

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3 hours ago, WaitListed said:

Honestly, I did not know this about Leica when I made my earlier post, but it all makes sense.  Limited availability is part of their luxury brand market strategy.

You’re misreading this. Stratified distribution channels with different tiers with different privileges is the luxury brand strategy.

But what we’re talking about here is the “pig in a python” problem which is you only have so much capacity to start with and it’s simply that the production system can’t cope with initial demand volumes without the cost of labor exceeding profitability when you add short term labor. So when a prospective buyer places multiple orders, the Boutiques are not getting more than their fair share of volume, it’s simply that production can’t increase to compensate for “phantom” orders, so it just reverts to that dealer’s previous ordering pattern and proportionate share of the overall production volume.

[WaitListed]

10 hours ago, Le Chef said:

You’re misreading this. Stratified distribution channels with different tiers with different privileges is the luxury brand strategy.

But what we’re talking about here is the “pig in a python” problem which is you only have so much capacity to start with and it’s simply that the production system can’t cope with initial demand volumes without the cost of labor exceeding profitability when you add short term labor. So when a prospective buyer places multiple orders, the Boutiques are not getting more than their fair share of volume, it’s simply that production can’t increase to compensate for “phantom” orders, so it just reverts to that dealer’s previous ordering pattern and proportionate share of the overall production volume.

 

There is definitely a “pig in a python” event happening, no argument there.  However, I am referring to more than just their current production and distribution situation and looking at Leica’s overall business strategy. They are positioning themselves as a “luxury” brand from a marketing, distribution, pricing, production & availability perspective.  The capacity (pig in a python) issue is simply a result of their overall strategy.  For instance, most coverage of the Q3 launch notes that initial interest & demand was greater than 2x the Q2.  If Leica had a “growth” strategy like Canon, Nikon, etc, they would have started to increase their production capabilities and product strategy to develop more future products, thus capitalizing on the success and interest of the Q3 AND ensuring the investment in increased production capabilities is NOT short-term (i.e., launch Q3mono sooner, Q4 in a year, etc).  This is the gamble most "growth" companies face all the time (i.e., how much do they invest in product development & marketing, production, new market penetration & distribution, etc, and how long will it take to recoup the cost of that investment).  If you position yourself as a “luxury” product, your focus is not on growth, but on brand image, product quality, customer experience, and profitability (including accessories).  Luxury brands increase their value through scarcity, thus there is no intention to increase production. Success is measured through brand image, maintaining higher prices and (hopefully) profitability. So, with such high initial Q3 demand and a no-growth strategy, you will definitely produce a “pig in a python” scenario. (I also agree that restrictive EU labor policies inhibits their ability to dial-up short-term manufacturing capabilities. I have some experience working with the European works councils in Germany, France & the UK. Their labor laws are much more stringent than the US and parts of Asia.) 

All I was saying in my earlier post is that this is my first Leica, and the lightbulb switched on for me personally when I internalized that Leica is a luxury brand and not just another camera maker.  This helped change my perspective of why the product availability is so slow (especially through big box distribution channels) and reduced my frustration over the situation. I did not expect to be addressing a master class in business strategy on a camera forum, but what the heck, I used to have a career in corporate strategy, so it was nice to indulge in this side conversation, but I’m sure others are bored to tears and would like to refocus on “where can I get a Q3 sooner!”.  🙂 
 

[Le Chef]

Leica would not dispute that they have become a luxury brand, and that the strategic shift involves adjusting distribution and sales locations. Leica, like say Lange or Ferrari or any other luxury brand, is going keep volumes low to maintain exclusivity and full margin pricing.

There is no incentive to dramatically ramp up production to meet short term demand. If production increases it’s to meet an overall growth in the luxury sector of their industry. i.e. China 10 years ago. Ferrari make you wait for anything up to 3 years for a new V8 engined “base” level model: you buy a pre-owned model to keep you going and to prove intent.

These hierarchies work to such a level of sophistication that top customers get invited to previews for new and one-of-a-kind models. It’s quite possible that Leica will preview the next “Ghost” variant and that most of the production will be snapped up before it goes on sale publicly. That’s good business for Leica to enhance exclusivity and encourages customer loyalty to the brand.

So it’s highly unlikely that Leica will increase production except incrementally. And it’s not in its interest to do so: there’s no requirement to chase volume when margin satisfies your investors.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Le Chef

[mcqinternational]

arrived today date on grey box  1 September 23

[idusidusi]

3 minutes ago, mcqinternational said:

arrived today date on grey box  1 September 23

Lucky you - enjoy!

[LarsOtium]

On 9/21/2023 at 6:40 PM, WaitListed said:

Honestly, I did not know this about Leica when I made my earlier post, but it all makes sense.  Limited availability is part of their luxury brand market strategy.

Leica does not have a "limited availability" marketing strategy a la Ferrari or Rolex.

 

Leica has a "limited availability" (to use your phrase) manufacturing strategy.

 

Example. Leica will continue to make Q3 as long as it takes to meet demand. Rolex will never (even though they have the manufacturing capability to do so) produce sufficient Daytona watches to meet demand.

[LocalHero1953]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:12 PM, WaitListed said:

I did not expect to be addressing a master class in business strategy on a camera forum, but what the heck, I used to have a career in corporate strategy, so it was nice to indulge in this side conversation, but I’m sure others are bored to tears and would like to refocus on “where can I get a Q3 sooner!”. 

When you've been here longer, you'll find that ALL forum members have had a career in corporate strategy 😉! 

[Cheesehead]

We are now nearly four months after release of the Q3. I see 1000 reply’s to the topic of waitlists and how to get one and fewer than 800 reply’s to the topic thread of images from the Q3.  From the prior Q cameras it seemed like the topics were more about photographs technique and accessories.  
 

Hopefully we can start seeing more cameras out and make some pictures. 

[WaitListed]

B&H is open Tues-Friday morning this week and then closed again for Succos until October 9th. So just sit back and relax if you're waiting for a Q3 from B&H - we're likely not going to see any significant shipments from them until mid-October. Hopefully then we will see a pop of new posts from excited new Q3 owners!! 🙂 

[SMelissaM]

I signed up on the UK Leica website on the 18th August and got an email today asking my to confirm my interest and then allowing me access to a link for me to purchase via the Leica website, they’ve confirmed it’s 2-4 days delivery too!! So excited 

[Orguy]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:41 PM, WaitListed said:

B&H is open Tues-Friday morning this week and then closed again for Succos until October 9th. So just sit back and relax if you're waiting for a Q3 from B&H - we're likely not going to see any significant shipments from them until mid-October. Hopefully then we will see a pop of new posts from excited new Q3 owners!! 🙂 

I am waitlisted at B&H. When are some recent Q3s received from them, please?

[WaitListed]

1 hour ago, Orguy said:

I am waitlisted at B&H. When are some recent Q3s received from them, please?

I ordered mine on June 29th and reached out to B&H today for a status check.  They indicated they continue to receive very small shipments from Leica, and based on current demand & shipments, it will be another 3+ months before I should expect to get my Q3. 

[rayansb]

1 hour ago, Orguy said:

I am waitlisted at B&H. When are some recent Q3s received from them, please?

I placed my order on June 30th. After having contacted B&H today they said that I shouldn't expect my shipment in 2023.

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[CalStanford]

5 hours ago, rayansb said:

I placed my order on June 30th. After having contacted B&H today they said that I shouldn't expect my shipment in 2023.

Leica dealers can get you one within a month or two if you just ask around. Much better than B&H