Incoming M10-R coming from M-P 240… what to expect?

[Laharrier]

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After a year of searching for the right deal I finally pulled the trigger on a chrome M10-R. Have been religiously shooting with my beloved black paint M-P 240 and always loved the results from that camera. Obviously it isn’t great in low light and highlight management was always an art in and of itself but beyond those shortcomings I always felt it to be a nearly perfect camera that I never thought I’d be compelled to upgrade. Of course the battery life of the 240 is truly out of this world so that always made me nervous. I had initially intended to buy an M10-P as the 24mp sensor is my favorite variety but with m10-P prices seemingly going up I felt the M10R was the more logical upgrade path. Interestingly the biggest draw of an M10 or M10R was the smaller size and the slightly highed VF magnification. 
 

just curious what some owners can advise me on as to what to expect with my new camera. I’ll miss the lack of a red dot on the camera but otherwise I’m excited about it! 

[otto.f]

On a longer term basis, I own it almost 2 years now, the following things made me hooked, after initial hiccups and coming from an M9 (and one year M10):

- shutter sound: so smooth, I'm addicted to pulling the trigger (although I only do it for a real photo)

- the possibility of real neutral colors, without spending a lot of time (versus M10)

- in combination with my Summicron 35 iv it feels so nice in my hands, a great step forward from the M9

- the great possibility of cropping: that I use it more often then I thought and the IQ of the crops. 

I had to get used to movement blur. In the beginning I thought I was convicted to fast shutter times only, but on the longer run you learn keeping your hand more steady than you needed to do with 18 or 24Mp.

Reviewers highlight the greater possibility of bringing back details in highlights that were not visible in the first place given a little overexposure. It is true that the M10-R is (along with M11) the champion of all digital M's here, even compared to the M10M. It is real handy indeed, although I find that with enough experience there was no problem with the M9 here. It's just more comfortable if you made a mistake with the exposure.

Edited April 24, 2023 by otto.f

[Laharrier]

Thank you guys so much for the replies! I have also owned an SL2S and felt that sensors performance was absolutely perfect. I am to understand the 10R sensor is quite similar to the SL2 correct?

[Jeff S]

Different sensor than the SL2. The M10-R and M10 Monochrom were developed together, with sensor architecture derived from the S3 (the M240 sensor was derived from the S007). But all are superbly capable cameras that shouldn’t disappoint.  I use the M10R, M10M and SL2 for different shooting needs and experiences, and haven’t felt limited by any.

Jeff

[Laharrier]

received the camera and it is truly a thing of beauty. Remarkable how much smaller and faster it is than my 240. I think I’ll enjoy this one! 

[otto.f]

Congrats and a lot of pleasure with it! That won’t be difficult after a phase of getting accustomed. Since you worked with an SL, the menu’s won’t overwhelm you. 

[Alberti]

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I switched from M8. —> M240 —> M10R.

In the M8 I often had a dent in the pictures, because of the way the shutter operated.

In the M240-P this was overcome with the butter-soft release option.

Now with the M10-R I had to learn how to hold it, but after some time I can also already use slow shutter speeds again. 1/15? Yes! Sure some pictures are movement-unsharp. Percentage wise more than with the M240. But that has imho NOTHING to do with the sensor, just with the soft-release options (un)available.

[dugby]

In addition to that which both otto.f  and  Al Brown  reported above,

 

I have come from an M240 and also found with my M10-R :

- that 'over exposure recovery' on the M10-R is superb, similar to that which Jono Slack's review showing the 'overexposed boat on beach' scene.

- OVF improvement in M10-R over the M240

- very logical and uncluttered menus.

- Auto ISO is more accurate

- The M10-R just seems easier to use.

 

Whilst I occasionally use both 35/50 FLE ASPH Summilux-M's  , I just can't escape from having the 50APO as my almost single lens choice.

Somehow having the 50APO on an M10-R is just a huge step in camera ergonomics, but more importantly quality of images. They just standout beyond my wildest dreams.

 

[rich_]

Many positives. But one item to consider is that the battery life is substantially less on the m10. Not half as long but not far off it felt to me at least, when comparing to m240

[84bravo]

The only thing the M240 has over the M10R is is battery life. Otherwise the M10R has an incredible dynamic range and highlight recovery. It is a leaps and bounds improvement over the M240, which is still a capable camera.

 

[cnguyen]

I still like my M240p . I also own an M10 and the colors are not that great compared to my M240p in saturated mode. The color from M10 is cooler and not rich and kodachrome like. shoot both and see for yourself which you prefer.

[Jeff S]

13 hours ago, cnguyen said:

I still like my M240p . I also own an M10 and the colors are not that great compared to my M240p in saturated mode. The color from M10 is cooler and not rich and kodachrome like. shoot both and see for yourself which you prefer.

Comparison is to M10-R; completely different sensor than M10. For user-controlled results, best to shoot DNG/RAW and set/create color profile as desired, not rely on JPEGs.

Jeff

[ramarren]

All of my cameras, not just Leica brand, have been set to 'raw only' output for at least the past 15 years. 

Regards digital M cameras, I've used extensively M9, M-P 240, M-D 262, M10 Monochrom, and now have an M10-R. I've also spent a lot of time with the SL typ 601 and CL. My impressions from use...

Regards the body: 

• The M10 controls are a little less complex and a little more ergonomic than the previous digital M bodies, excepting the M-D 262 (which has extremely few controls and no menus, and was to me the most ergonomic of all).
• The difference in the size of the M10 bodies compared to the prior types is noticeable albeit not particularly significant to my use. In other words, I adapt to whatever camera is in my hands fairly quickly and small differences like this aren't much of an obstacle one way or the other.
• I said it when the M10 came out and I will repeat it now after a good bit of use: I am not sure I like the ISO knob's up-down locking mechanism. When I'm operating the camera in a manner of setting ISO values specifically, I find it a little bit of an annoyance that I have to unlock the ISO knob specifically. I've never found that I ever inadvertently moved an ISO setting, and don't really see what advantage this poses over just using a slightly stronger detent click-stop for Auto and Menu ISO setting modes. It's a relatively small thing and I normally don't think of it, I just don't understand why they felt users needed to have this locking gizmo. 
• The shutter sound on both M10-R and M10 Monochrom is soft and subdued, a small and nice improvement over my earlier digital M bodies. I have not yet made a video recording of the M10-R and M10-M to post alongside my other Leicas, but you can hear what they sound like by tuning in here: M Shutter Sounds

Regards the imaging: 

• The M10-R does a fine job of high acutance and resolution with a large dynamic range. It does not in any way compete with the M10 Monochrom on acutance, however: the differences between two identical captures with the same lens, tripod mounted, and critically focused with the Visoflex 020 demonstrate the M10-M's superior acutance instantly.
• The M10-M has much lower noise characteristics as well. Properly exposed M10-M photographs at ISO 50,000 are about as noisy as properly exposed M10-R photographs at ISO 12,500, so about a two stop noise improvement (which is pretty much what I expected out of a sensor without Bayer matrix). 
• Compared to all my prior digital Ms (and SL, CL), both M10 models have superior high ISO noise characteristics. 
• The M10-R dynamic range is not quite as large as the M10-M. I measured ~14 real stops of dynamic range with the M10-M and about ~12-13 stops with the M10-R. The M10-R, due to its RGB sensor matrix, allows a bit more recoverability with overexposure in the field, but the M10-M can lift underexposed values more with less noise ... this points to differences in proper exposure technique where you can be a little looser with the M10-R when it comes to oversaturation and have to be in better control of not blowing highlights with the M10-M. 
• The best I was ever able to get out of any of my earlier digital M bodies was in the range of ~11-12 stops of dynamic range, and about the same for SL and CL.

All taken together, I am satisfied and happy with this pair of M10 bodies for the way they work and the results they produce. The M11/M11-M pose another set of potential advancements as well, but with seemingly larger changes in design from earlier M bodies; these M10s will do for me for the present at least.  

G

[Alberti]

I'm not sure others addressed this:

The M240-P has a soft release function. That is VERY effective and the one thing I miss a lot.

My M240-P allowed a kind of stealth mode, but also a soft effect release, both selectable by menu. The result: more pictures come out without visible shake.

Note that many complained in the beginning about the low speed blur of the M10-R and even more the M11: I think this could be well due to not having such a nice feature. I took me some time to get accustomed, but I still long for it.

The M10-R sensor is great and I think resembles the M240-P in color style. The tone is the same but the depth is oh so great. How to explain?

And now Lightroom has a grain reduction option, the "Dual-Grain" structure is less of a nuisance 😉

[cnguyen]

It's not the sensor I'm talking about . it's about the software engineer who calibrates the firmware behind the scene. Go look for Thorsten Overgaard M11 one year review and pay attention to the color difference between M10 and M11 he talked about. Don't try to chimp or repeat what other people said. Put on your thinking hat and do your own comparison. 

Have fun! 

[ramarren]

3 hours ago, Alberti said:

I'm not sure others addressed this:

The M240-P has a soft release function. That is VERY effective and the one thing I miss a lot.

My M240-P allowed a kind of stealth mode, but also a soft effect release, both selectable by menu. The result: more pictures come out without visible shake.

Note that many complained in the beginning about the low speed blur of the M10-R and even more the M11: I think this could be well due to not having such a nice feature. I took me some time to get accustomed, but I still long for it.

The M10-R sensor is great and I think resembles the M240-P in color style. The tone is the same but the depth is oh so great. How to explain?

And now Lightroom has a grain reduction option, the "Dual-Grain" structure is less of a nuisance 😉

M240-P? Did you mean M-P typ 240? 

The M10-M and M10-R have such a soft, quiet shutter action  ... I don't remember the M-P 240 shutter ever being as quiet and vibrationless, regardless what mode it is in. I've had no problems with either of these 40Mpixel bodies with respect to "low speed blur" at all, used hand-held. Both simply require good shutter actuation technique (such as exhaling before release, not gripping the camera too tightly, squeezing the shutter release button carefully, etc). 

I do use a tripod when I need/want maximum sharpness with either, as with any camera, even at 1/4000 second exposure time. 

G

[Alberti]

Hi G, 

I did not address the M240 shutter (the new one in the M10-R is superb) but the release, the activation button and how it reacts to your finger. 
And with it I was more comfortable. My thoughts: - It would be great it it were combined.

I hope I am not having a sentiment - that the M10-R does in fact have a soft release as only option 😉 but I don’t appreciate it to its full extent.