Choosing between M10-P (Ghost Edition) and M11

[StefLuno]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi all, I am planning to get my first M camera from Leica and hope you'll give me some advice and inspirations on the choice between the M10-P Ghost Edition and M11. 

Situation: 

- Me: I started my journey as a photojournalism intern with L'Agence France Presse, focusing on urban street life in Asia and it led me to remain an amateur photographer, even though I am no longer in the media industry and has no contact with photography in my everyday life

- Device owned: Leica Q2, ghost edition

- Level of use: Amateur photographer, no need for printing, just doing photography as a hobby and a way to appreciate arts and beauty of life

- Purpose of use: I am not going to use the camera as a collection piece, but something I use on a daily basis; also, the camera will also be like a piece of art for my appreciation, that is why the look of the camera is also important to me

- Type of photography: my main interest is street photography

- Reason for getting M: I am using the Ghost version of Q2, but wanted to try out the M series as I can switch lenses...

- Personal thinking: When exploring, I find myself attracted by M10-P ghost edition as it looks even nicer than Q2's ghost edition. Merely the look is worth a lot to me - as I explained, the external appearance of the camera has a huge weight on my decision. On the other hand, I also recognise that the technical upgrades from M10 to M11 seem a major leap in many aspects... The most noticeable difference on the face value is the 60 mega-pixel vs. 24 mp in M10, which seems like a huge difference. This is especially true a I find myself constantly cropping,  with the Q2's 28mm, because I feel uncomfortable approaching people into their and my own "personal" space. Therefore, assuming all else are pretty much insignificantly different, the choice is between the look of the camera and the practical differences that the technical upgrades will lead to in terms of image quality...

- Problem statement: What impacts will the the technical upgrades from M10 to M11 have on image quality? Given my situation as an amateur photography, are those impacts meaningful enough to my use of the camera? (follow-up question to myself: are the differences significant enough for me to give up on the beautiful look of M10-P ghost?)

 

Thanks guys - really appreciate any thoughts, comments and advice on this topic! 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[haikos]

Of course, they could make an M11 ghost and this would no longer be a question for you.

I think M11 uses the same battery as the Q2 so going that route might give you extra batteries from day 1.

[dugby]

Welcome to the M fora.

I think your choice of the Ghost / Hodinkee M10-P is a great decision, just be aware that any additional lenses may not have that "matt warm-gray" finish.

You mentioned that the looks/aesthetics of your camera is important, most other Leica lenses colours are either silver chrome, black chrome, black paint, titanium and occasionally some exotic colours - gold or white or stealth.

 

Additionally is there a reason for why the M10-R {40MP} is not in your consideration?

 

[hdmesa]

13 hours ago, haikos said:

...I think M11 uses the same battery as the Q2...

It does not, unfortunately. 

[hdmesa]

On 4/12/2023 at 1:34 PM, StefLuno said:

...What impacts will the the technical upgrades from M10 to M11 have on image quality?...

If you're not concerned with throwing down that much money on a digital camera that is two generations previous to the current one, then go for it. The M10-P is a great camera, so don't worry about specs.

That said, if it were me, I would just enjoy my Q2 Ghost and wait for a matching M11 version.

[newtoleica]

I like the P aesthetic rather than the red dot so I see some of where you are coming from….

in terms of technicalities I went for an M10-P over an M11 as I was able to use the spare cash for lenses. Coming from a Q you will need to factor in the cost of several lenses as otherwise what is the point? 24MP with (for me) a 24/35/50 set means I don’t need to crop more than about 10% if at all. I like wide street shots with zone focussing (Alan Schaller style) so the 24 is my thing, however a 35 is very versatile and the 50 gives a bit more reach. 
whether the upgrades of the M11 are worth it only you can tell, but I find the 10P very capable. Shutter sound is very important to me as I frequently shoot close up from the hip and a noisy shutter gives the game away…. So not so keen on the 11 for that. 
suggest you cost up the package of M body and desired lenses rather than just look at the body in isolation. 

[StefLuno]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

9 minutes ago, newtoleica said:

I like the P aesthetic rather than the red dot so I see some of where you are coming from….

in terms of technicalities I went for an M10-P over an M11 as I was able to use the spare cash for lenses. Coming from a Q you will need to factor in the cost of several lenses as otherwise what is the point? 24MP with (for me) a 24/35/50 set means I don’t need to crop more than about 10% if at all. I like wide street shots with zone focussing (Alan Schaller style) so the 24 is my thing, however a 35 is very versatile and the 50 gives a bit more reach. 
whether the upgrades of the M11 are worth it only you can tell, but I find the 10P very capable. Shutter sound is very important to me as I frequently shoot close up from the hip and a noisy shutter gives the game away…. So not so keen on the 11 for that. 
suggest you cost up the package of M body and desired lenses rather than just look at the body in isolation. 

Thanks for the advice. The 10P costs exactly the same as 11 if it’s ghost I’m going for. Also I tend to use only 1 lens for my work and intend to keep it that way. The flexibility given by having multiple lenses is definitely valuable but cost wise it is a challenge for me to even keep the idea that I’ll get other lenses in the future and the versatility that having only one lens will train me up with is also valuable for a photographer in general. So if 10P and 11 coats the same, what’s your recommendation in general? 

[newtoleica]

1 minute ago, StefLuno said:

Thanks for the advice. The 10P costs exactly the same as 11 if it’s ghost I’m going for. Also I tend to use only 1 lens for my work and intend to keep it that way. The flexibility given by having multiple lenses is definitely valuable but cost wise it is a challenge for me to even keep the idea that I’ll get other lenses in the future and the versatility that having only one lens will train me up with is also valuable for a photographer in general. So if 10P and 11 coats the same, what’s your recommendation in general? 

Then go with the 11, it’s going to be more future proof, or wait for an M11P? 

[StefLuno]

16 hours ago, dugby said:

Welcome to the M fora.

I think your choice of the Ghost / Hodinkee M10-P is a great decision, just be aware that any additional lenses may not have that "matt warm-gray" finish.

You mentioned that the looks/aesthetics of your camera is important, most other Leica lenses colours are either silver chrome, black chrome, black paint, titanium and occasionally some exotic colours - gold or white or stealth.

 

Additionally is there a reason for why the M10-R {40MP} is not in your consideration?

 

Ah thanks for the reminder - I most likely won’t get another Leica lenses, at least for the foreseeable future. When I do get additional lenses I’ll most likely have gotten a third Leica camera. 

10R doesn’t have the ghost look which is essentially what I’m after, that’s why it wasn’t being considered. 

in terms of image quality, is there a meaningful one so noticeable that I need to reconsider my choice of ghost? 
 

im currently leaning towards M11 as I read about the colouring of M10P is a bit off and that of M11 is almost always perfectly spot on. 

[dugby]

Given that your budget extends to a Hodinkee M10-P (& matching 35 LUX), I think you may find much similarity to your Hodinkee Q2, and whilst the

M/35FLE images should be better, you may feel a little underwhelmed with the expenditure.

 

However for a similar expenditure, if you were to go with a standard silver M10-P(change black leather to gray) and silver 50 APO I think you'll be very excitedly surprised with the resulting images. You'll have your own super Ghost.

Edited April 16, 2023 by dugby

[haikos]

9 hours ago, hdmesa said:

It does not, unfortunately. 

Thanks for clarifying 👍

[Nocc]

This topic hits for me because I am in a similar situation, having bought an M10-P Reporter for its looks, but also have an M11. Life circumstances dictate that I should only keep one, and it’s a testament to the M10-P that I’m conflicted with the decision. 
 

The Reporter is a beautiful camera and since I’m on the go with LR mobile a lot, the 24MP files don’t cause lag on my iPhone 14 Pro unlike the 60MP files of the M11. 
 

While I do agree the M11 has more accurate metering and at pliable files both for cropping and highlight retention, I personally never feel shortchanged when I bring out the M10-P over the M11. 
 

if the Ghost Edition really stands out to you and will give you joy to use day in and day out, I support the idea of buying the camera you want—instead of relying just on specs to make your decision as having Leica’s is illogical already in a sense!

[StefLuno]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:37 AM, Nocc said:

This topic hits for me because I am in a similar situation, having bought an M10-P Reporter for its looks, but also have an M11. Life circumstances dictate that I should only keep one, and it’s a testament to the M10-P that I’m conflicted with the decision. 
 

The Reporter is a beautiful camera and since I’m on the go with LR mobile a lot, the 24MP files don’t cause lag on my iPhone 14 Pro unlike the 60MP files of the M11. 
 

While I do agree the M11 has more accurate metering and at pliable files both for cropping and highlight retention, I personally never feel shortchanged when I bring out the M10-P over the M11. 
 

if the Ghost Edition really stands out to you and will give you joy to use day in and day out, I support the idea of buying the camera you want—instead of relying just on specs to make your decision as having Leica’s is illogical already in a sense!

Hi there thanks so much for the recommendation. I have sort of made up my mind to get the M10P because when I think about it photography to me is an overall experience, rather than a means of livelihood. Cameras to me are like a friend - a fairy friend who is capable of capturing the moments with their eyes, and every time I go out with a camera, I am essentially enjoying an excursion together with the fairy friend. Therefore, the experience, rather than the products of that experience, is more important to me. I can imagine myself feeling amazed by the pictures produced by the M11, but I can also imagine myself not having the same kind of strong impulse to bring it out to the field, for the sheer experience. However, I would most likely be so much happier just taking out the pretty and delicate (though not so powerful) M10P on a sunny/rainy/snowy day to explore the world together, just like sharing some hours with a dear and darling friend. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by StefLuno

[rich_]

It is an emotional decision. From the passionate writing it seems clear op prefers the look of the P. 

The digital camera technology is 6 years old under the paint job. IMHO it’s more befitting of the prices shared with the standard M10 or P….. But if it’s scratching that itch of buying nice gear and can afford it then why not? It can always be sold for an M11-P when eventually that comes calling

I wonder also if Hodinkee will do (can afford) any more collaborative editions. Hopefully they didn’t bet on the stainless steel watch hype too heavily. I see the CEO swapped over past year after a short tenure!.. family reasons.. 
 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by rich_

[Nocc]

20 hours ago, StefLuno said:

Hi there thanks so much for the recommendation. I have sort of made up my mind to get the M10P because when I think about it photography to me is an overall experience, rather than a means of livelihood. Cameras to me are like a friend - a fairy friend who is capable of capturing the moments with their eyes, and every time I go out with a camera, I am essentially enjoying an excursion together with the fairy friend. Therefore, the experience, rather than the products of that experience, is more important to me. I can imagine myself feeling amazed by the pictures produced by the M11, but I can also imagine myself not having the same kind of strong impulse to bring it out to the field, for the sheer experience. However, I would most likely be so much happier just taking out the pretty and delicate (though not so powerful) M10P on a sunny/rainy/snowy day to explore the world together, just like sharing some hours with a dear and darling friend. 

Yep, you nailed it. Life's short after all, buy and get what makes you happiest.