New Sigma 60-600mm L Mount - First Effort

[jaapv]

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The 60-600 is supported by DXO with the latest update. 

[drjonb]

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[hdokgst]

Drjonb,

Regarding your moon shots: Are these single shots or did you use some stacking of shots? I‘ve tried to take photos of the moon (with a Sigma 150/600) but never came near to the sharpness of your photos.

[drjonb]

50 minutes ago, hdokgst said:

Drjonb,

Regarding your moon shots: Are these single shots or did you use some stacking of shots? I‘ve tried to take photos of the moon (with a Sigma 150/600) but never came near to the sharpness of your photos.

Hi, thanks for your interest.  Yes, these moon shots are all the result of some type of stacking or stitching stacking, but also a number of other steps to get the images you see.  Feel free to send me a PM if you would like further information.

[michali]

I've just returned from a short trip to Tanzania. I took 2 bodies (SL2-S & SL2) & only 1 tele. lens the 60-600mm, space & weight were very limited on the small plane I traveled around in.    

From a pratical perspective, the Sigma covered all my needs. However it's not always about practicality, there were a couple of instances where I wished I had the Canon 400mm f4 with me.

Tawny Eagle (Aquila rapax) @ Maswa, Serengeti  -SL2 & Sigma 60-600mm @600mm

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[drjonb]

3 hours ago, michali said:

I've just returned from a short trip to Tanzania. I took 2 bodies (SL2-S & SL2) & only 1 tele. lens the 60-600mm, space & weight were very limited on the small plane I traveled around in.    

From a pratical perspective, the Sigma covered all my needs. However it's not always about practicality, there were a couple of instances where I wished I had the Canon 400mm f4 with me.

Tawny Eagle (Aquila rapax) @ Maswa, Serengeti  -SL2 & Sigma 60-600mm @600mm

(please click on images for better res.)

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Love the eagle shot, even though he/she does not appear to approve of the lens you used!

[michali]

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Tawny Eagle (Aquila rapax) @ Maswa, Serengeti  -SL2 & Sigma 60-600mm @600mm

(please click on image for better res.)

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Edited July 9, 2023 by michali

[Planetwide]

Has anybody tried this lens with the Panasonic S5II? 

[Planetwide]

On 4/16/2023 at 5:35 AM, jaapv said:

Are you using Electronic Shutter? Because I seem to notice a slight lack of acuity in the images. That could be shutter slap, which generates high-frequency micro-blur which neither OIS nor shutter speed can prevent on long lenses.

Hi Jaapv,

I have a question regarding the use of ES. I need to shoot up at 500-600mm for propellor driven aircraft. Shutter speeds are in the 1/200 - 1/250th sec in order to yield prop blur. Mechanical shutter is also required to stop curved props due to the effects of rolling shutter. Is this vibration a Sigma OS issue? I ask, because it is not really evident on the Canon lenses that I am currently using. I am considering this lens for its very useful range.

Thanks

Andrew

[jaapv]

 I can confirm that ES is not compatible with prop blades. I have photos of prop blades @ 1/16000 and the blades are not just distorted but strewn all over the image. 
 

I don’t  know whether this is a specific Signa problem but there are a number of suggestive considerations:

1. It was only noticed since the introduction of the 150-600, in fact I was the one who discovered it on this forum. 
2. As opposed to the normal manifestation of shutter slap at certain shutter speeds it occurs at all speeds, including quite fast ones this suggests some kind of resonance at a frequency that OIS cannot handle. 
3 There are no reports of the issue on other brand lenses. In fact, I own and have owned quite a few long lenses and never noticed this before.

[michali]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

 I can confirm that ES is not compatible with prop blades. I have photos of prop blades @ 1/16000 and the blades are not just distorted but strewn all over the image. 
 

I don’t  know whether this is a specific Signa problem but there are a number of suggestive considerations:

1. It was only noticed since the introduction of the 150-600, in fact I was the one who discovered it on this forum. 
2. As opposed to the normal manifestation of shutter slap at certain shutter speeds it occurs at all speeds, including quite fast ones this suggests some kind of resonance at a frequency that OIS cannot handle. 
3 There are no reports of the issue on other brand lenses. In fact, I own and have owned quite a few long lenses and never noticed this before.

 

6 hours ago, Planetwide said:

Hi Jaapv,

I have a question regarding the use of ES. I need to shoot up at 500-600mm for propellor driven aircraft. Shutter speeds are in the 1/200 - 1/250th sec in order to yield prop blur. Mechanical shutter is also required to stop curved props due to the effects of rolling shutter. Is this vibration a Sigma OS issue? I ask, because it is not really evident on the Canon lenses that I am currently using. I am considering this lens for its very useful range.

Thanks

Andrew

Shutter shock/slap seems to be an issue with mirrorless cameras. I first noticed it when I had a Sony A7r about 9 years ago, it only occurred with stabilised lenses. There were many complaints from users at the time. I never had this issue when using my manual Leica R tele lenses on the Sony.

I also picked up shutter shock in the form of unsharp images, when I had the LUMIX S1R, which I was using with the Leica VE90-280mm. I didn't know what it was at the time, until Jaap pointed it out. I thought it was the IBIS & OIS countering each other. Shutter shock is not limited to Sigma lenses, it's a function of the camera's shutter mechanism at the beginning of the exposure.

The article below from 2015 sets it out & also differentiates between Mirror Slap on DSLRs & Shutter Shock, which it also says is more common in mirrorless cameras.

What are Mirror Slap and Shutter Shock?

Another article: What is Shutter Shock and How to Mitigate It

The only way to avoid it is to use the Electronic Shutter, which can then introduce other issues.  For my use ES is the standard setting on both the SL2 & SL2-S, as all of my photography is done outdoors.

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by michali

[jaapv]

Thank you Mike. That confirms that it is NOT brand-specific.  
Scratch  the second part of my post.

I wonder why the GX8 with Leica 100-400 was less prone, or at least I didn’t notice it, as the camera itself was notorious for shutter slap at 1/125., as other MFT cameras are. I think that the last word on the root cause has not been spoken.  

We should investigate whether turning OIS off is another solution. Probably not. 

[Planetwide]

Hi Jaapv & michali,

Thank you for taking the time to post. I found this on another forum, and it discusses using electronic first curtain with a mechanical shutter as a hybrid solution. This may work, not only for aviation, but also for other subjects. I will give it a try see if my keeper rate improves. 

Andrew

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4585042

[jaapv]

Leica, however, does not have this feature AFAIK (but I do not have a SL2). A Sony A7C would be the most affordable (by Leica standards) solution.

[Planetwide]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Leica, however, does not have this feature AFAIK (but I do not have a SL2). A Sony A7C would be the most affordable (by Leica standards) solution.

It is available on the S1R, and the S5II/x FYI

[Planetwide]

This is an interesting test, albeit on a Canon R5

https://www.the-ninth.com/blog/shutter-shock-canon-r5

[drjonb]

22 hours ago, Planetwide said:

This is an interesting test, albeit on a Canon R5

https://www.the-ninth.com/blog/shutter-shock-canon-r5

Not sure if this helps but here is an opportunistic shot using the Leica VE 24-90 - this is heavily cropped with some noise reduction and sharpening in LR on my iPad.  Shutter speed was 1/16000th and shutter mode was ES.

Whenever I use my Sigma 60-600, I always use ES.

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Edited July 17, 2023 by drjonb

[drjonb]

22 hours ago, Planetwide said:

This is an interesting test, albeit on a Canon R5

https://www.the-ninth.com/blog/shutter-shock-canon-r5

This was using the Sigma 60-60.  Also ES, cannot recall the shutter speed, but can find it if you need it.

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[Planetwide]

2 hours ago, drjonb said:

Not sure if this helps but here is an opportunistic shot using the Leica VE 24-90 - this is heavily cropped with some noise reduction and sharpening in LR on my iPad.  Shutter speed was 1/16000th and shutter mode was ES.

Whenever I use my Sigma 60-600, I always use ES.

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Thank you for this! 1/16000 should more than freeze any rotor/prop even at high speed such as a fan in a jet. The rotors look frozen to me. Shooting props is generally done at much lower shutter speeds, as the goal is to have 1/4 turn of blur. The problem with ES at these speeds is curved blades due to sensor readout speeds. ELFC seems to be the solution, too bad Leica doesn't have it in the SL2. Interestingly, sensor readout speeds affect this as well.

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[drjonb]

7 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

Thank you for this! 1/16000 should more than freeze any rotor/prop even at high speed such as a fan in a jet. The rotors look frozen to me. Shooting props is generally done at much lower shutter speeds, as the goal is to have 1/4 turn of blur. The problem with ES at these speeds is curved blades due to sensor readout speeds. ELFC seems to be the solution, too bad Leica doesn't have it in the SL2. Interestingly, sensor readout speeds affect this as well.

I am no expert on this but I would say that with rotor blades or fan jets, unless you really ‘freeze’ them (necessitating a very short exposure), once you use a much lower speed, there can be real unwanted interaction between shutter speed, read out speed, and distance moved by the blades during exposure.  Leica, given their intended market, would probably not even consider the use case we are discussing when designing their cameras! Good Luck.