HELP! I am losing highlights and NEED advice!!

[rwchisholm]

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Need some help, advice. I am using my M8 and shooting with several different lenses - CV 28 Ult, 35 Ult, 50 Nok and my Leice 28 Elmarit.

 

Here's my problem - When shooting glamour stuff (i.e., under some artificial light from my softbox and I also have a diffused spot, or when using my diffused on camera flash - or just when having one light source more on the face than body), I am blowing out facial highlights on the forehead and/or cheeks. I have set the camera back a third EV and still really have to underexpose the entire photo not to lose those areas. If I meter off the cheeks or forehead I lose those details, so I have to lock the metering off a brighter area completely, usually off the subject and then recompose, focus, recompose and shoot.

 

I have been shooting with my 5D and the Leica and am not having/have never had this issue with the 5D. This is very frustrating, as the photos are otherwise spectacular. Please share your knowledge. Thank you!! -Rob

[scottv]

Hey Rob

A thought. Presuming you are using through the lens metering, what type are you using on the 5D? Spot, centre weighted, multi etc... M8 has only centre weighted. The difference might a/c for the difference?

 

Cheers

Scott

[rwchisholm]

I use center weighted on the 5D. I don't know why I am having this problem. The images are so good otherwise and this is very frustrating!

[lars_bergquist]

Here is a piece of advice. Get a Kodak Gray Scale, and a Kodak Gray Card. Do test under completely controlled lighting (studio). Use the exposure parameters obtained from the Gray Card to expose the Gray Scale. See if the transition between the two brightest fields is OK. If this is the case, then the camera is in principle exposing correctly, but you may have difficulty with your metering technique because of the very narrow metering field.

 

You say that you are doing glamour photography, so I presume your subjects will not run away. In that case, the best method is to use a hand-held incident meter. Any standard Gossen will do, no need to go flat out on the latest Japanese Button Monster. If you have calibrated the meter to the camera meter, then you have a fail-safe metod. The difference between the 18% reflectance that the meter measures, and the 100% that mark the lower limit of specular reflection, is always the same! Only specular reflections will burn out — as they should do. But diffuse reflections will hold, as they can never run higher than c. 90%.

 

I live at a fairly high latitude (nearly 60° N) so daylight is very variable. I do regularly carry an incident meter to check the 'base level lighting' of the moment.

[carstenw]

Since you are working with controlled lighting, I would simply experiment with the correct exposure compensation and examine your results until you have nailed it. Then continue shooting.

[j. borger]

This issue has come up several times before at this forum but there never was an adequate answer, explanation or cure as far as i can recall.

I encounter hotspots on foreheads and cheeks on a regular base, especially with my 50 lux asph ... with diffused natural windowlit light .. and the light does not need to be very contrasty at all. No way exposure compensation or other ways of metering can make up for it ....

It amazes me you also encounter this with a low contrast lens like the 28 ultron??

[tom0511]

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I think the M8 is just not great regarding highlights.

in my experience the only way to work around is to sometimes slightly underepose the whole image in order to safe highlights (I use -0.3 as a standard).

No problem to boost the midtones and shaddows afterwards.

The DMR does a better job in the highlights.

I wonder if Leica could improve it by offering uncompressed 16 bit. I doubt they will though.

Cheers, Tom

[ndjambrose]

Two words: flash meter.

 

If you're using studio strobes (e.g. monoblocs) then the right technique is to use an flash meter attached to your strobe unit to measure the flash power at your subject.

 

Set your camera to its maximum flash synch speed; set the same speed and ISO on the flash meter; use the flash meter to trigger the flash and measure the light that falls on your subject (i.e. an incident reading); set the indicated aperture on your lens.

 

I used to shoot a lot of fashion photography and this is the only metering technique that's reliable. The alternative is to take a reasonable guess and adjust exposure incrementally using the histogram as reference. But metering using the camera alone with external strobes will not work due to the disparity in synchronisation. You'll get the exact problems you've already encountered.

[dfarkas]

Definitely use a flash meter. Make sure you meter to the light source, not to the camera lens. If you meter towards the lens you may very well be getting over-exposed images. Alos, the 5D tends to give very flat, lower contrast files than the M8. Metering technique combined with a film-type contrast curve can be your problem here.

 

Good luck.

 

David

[tom0511]

I think the question is :

do we have a "problem" with correct metering / lighting

 

or has the M8 a kind of abrupt curve regarding the highlights/not so smooth transitions in the highlights.

 

I think the second is the case.

[Dan States]

There is oceans of detail in the shadows of an M8 file. Under expose by a full stop and bring it up to where you need it in C1. Compared to the D200 the highlight control is a bit better and the ability to adjust ISO in post processing is amazing.

[robsteve]

Do you have UV-IR filters on your lenses?

[Jamie Roberts]

I just don't see this, sorry.

 

I lose just as much on the high end with my 5d as I do with the M8 under the same conditions, and all the advice here about independent metering is right on the money. Also, I don't usually expose "to the right" with the M8 unless I'm shooting ISO 1250 or higher, where that's necessary (and the DR of the image needs to be strictly controlled).

 

FWIW, in my experience, the M8's meter is very much like a spot meter, and not like the center-weighted average on the 5d. FWIW too, I also find the M8 much closer to my independent meters; the 5d is almost always down 2/3 of a stop overall.

 

So there you go. I also think your RAW processing (you are shooting RAW, right?) makes a difference; much as I prefer C1, ACR / LR is much better at holding highlights.

 

(@Han--I'm surprised to hear you getting this issue by diffuse window light. Very interesting and I don't know what to say about that...I shoot by window light all the time).

 

And having said that, I've always found the M8 has so much stuff through the whole range of exposure that I don't have to worry about pushing or pulling the image a bit (and it's certainly as good as the DMR in this regard, though when blown, the DMR appears a bit smoother to me).

 

Here's an example of an image shot in RAW to hold the highlights, and then developed three times from C1: highlights, shadows and midtones. The background on the normally "metered" shot was completely blown, so I underexposed to hold them then brought them back...

 

(I also like this shot because I'm using that tree as to illuminate their faces; gotta get me a muslin-coloured reflector LOL!!)

 

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[j. borger]

(@Han--I'm surprised to hear you getting this issue by diffuse window light. Very interesting and I don't know what to say about that...I shoot by window light all the time).

It is not as bad as it sounds Jamie .. ONLY with the 50 lux with an IR-filter mounted ............... i recall Bob Blakeley reporting the same with that combo a while back .... have to do some additional testing...

 

Han

[Guest Walt]

Blown highlights on foreheads and cheeks were a regular occurence for me before I used IR filters. With filters I do not have the problem. Though others seem to doubt it, if a highlight area is also an IR emitter or reflector, the sensor can easily overload.

 

Walt

[Jamie Roberts]

It is not as bad as it sounds Jamie .. ONLY with the 50 lux with an IR-filter mounted ............... i recall Bob Blakeley reporting the same with that combo a while back .... have to do some additional testing...

 

Han

 

Really interesting, and makes sense, since I don't use the 50 lux that often on the M8 (I've been using wider lenses, mostly, and mostly pre-ASPH versions which are pretty low contrast. The two exceptions are the 35 Lux ASPH and the 24 Elmarit ASPH, which don't give me a problem in the highlights).

 

I wonder what the IR filter could possibly add in terms of exposure. Odd.

[tom0511]

I just don't see this, sorry.

....And having said that, I've always found the M8 has so much stuff through the whole range of exposure that I don't have to worry about pushing or pulling the image a bit (and it's certainly as good as the DMR in this regard, though when blown, the DMR appears a bit smoother to me).

 

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maybe its easier to push & pull images with the M8 because its less noisy in the shaddows - I still think that the M8 blows highlights faster than the DMR when exposing the same way. But thats not based on direct comparison just subjective feeling .

[Olsen]

To my view, the M8 is a 200ASA camera. I underexpose with 0,3 step all the time.

[Jack_Flesher]

A stupid question for the OP, but which raw converter are you using, or are you perhaps shooting jpeg???

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[rwchisholm]

Thanks to all who have answered. I think there is a bit of a learning curve with any tool, and I am adjusting my shooting to better suit the M8. I'm sure it will get there! (Oh, and yes, I shoot raw, with filters, code my lenses and develop in LR and send to PS3 for finishing.) Thank you -rob