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Which Leica?


JBA

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I'm new to Leica but not new to photography. The results I've been getting with my C-Lux 2 have inspired me to get back into film photography. I miss the degree of control as well as the image quality of film in all its wonderful variety. My somewhat long-winded question is, which Leica(s) should I get?

 

After considerable research into the various options available, I've come to a few conclusions. First of all, I'm most comfortable with an SLR, and Leica SLRs and R lenses can be had relatively cheaply. In this area, I've been considering the SL2 and the R8 (which I can get used for a very good price locally), and not much in between.

 

Secondly, the M system is iconic for reasons that I now understand after handling the current lineup. I can imagine taking an M everywhere all the time, which I can't imagine with an SLR.

 

Thirdly, my budget is such that I could equip myself with both systems in a modest way, but it's also such that I could get completely carried away and squander a great deal of money. I do not want to become a camera collector. I'm probably not going to shoot enough film to justify two cameras, much less two separate systems.

 

I have been leaning heavily toward the M and have looked into several different options. In the brief time I've handled the M7, MP and M8, I've had some trouble getting used to the rangefinder focus, but I think this is a matter of practice rather than a long-term problem. I wear glasses, and from what I've read, the 0.58 viewfinder magnification would work best for me, though I haven't had a chance to compare. Is viewfinder magnification really that big a deal? (Ordering one a la carte is not outside the realm of possibility and would be a wonderful way to stroke my own vanity, but is a bit over-the-top for a newcomer to the M.)

 

Eventually, I'm thinking I may also acquire an M8, which makes the M lineup even more attractive. I've considered buying a used M6 as a starter camera and have a good idea of prices. I'm in no hurry, but at some point need to commit to a course of action.

 

Do I just jump in with both feet and not look back? Or do I tiptoe around a major outlay by buying something used first and possibly end up spending more in the long run? Any suggestions?

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hello,

 

if you are going to obtain an m8 eventually, then the M system is the way to go. as for which M body to get, that depends mostly on which focal lengths you will want and what sort of shooting you like to do. the classic Ms, the M2 and M3, are an excellent way to get into the M system without a huge cash layout. if you don't like it, then you can resell it for about the same as you will pay. the vf magnification does make a huge difference when shooting with spectacles or with wider focal lengths. I would recommend getting a M2 with a 1.35x magnifier and two lenses: a 35 and a 50. Use the magnifier with the 50, but not the 35. this will be almost like having a M3 as well, and much less than getting a MP .58 or M7/6. If you wish a wider lens, like a 25 or 28, then you can approximate those framelines by simply using the entire VF in the m2. but if money is not a problem for you, go for the MP .58 and get your favourite 35 and 25 lenses :)

 

good cheer, thomas

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Depending on your budget, I would go for an M6 classic, rather than M6TTL and spend up to as current as you can for a 35mm lens. The TTL shutter speed dial would drive me spare, but I understand it works for others, some, much better operators than me. In general, M6 because it shouldnt be too much more expensive than a serviced M2 M3 and has a light meter. Dont get me wrong, I would love an M2 or an M3 as well. You would need to have a look at the framelines in the shop and make sure they are ok for you and your glasses. If you are a left eye dominant dont worry, you will be, or should be re learning to shoot right.

 

Rangefinders are a learning curve, and buying two or three lenses to start just doesnt cut it. Your style will come through regardless of the lens length you use, and you need to be free from distraction and working on competence. There will be pros and cons for any age lens you buy. If you know enough you could probably use several different vintage lenses of each focal length. Most dont. Dont sweat it, buy to your budget and be damned. If you can afford ASPH go there.

 

If you have the budget...there isnt a lot wrong with an MP...Slippery covering when your hands are wet. Um...er...um...I'd like a match needle, but that is something MP doesnt have, not something that is wrong with it, and I am learning the arrows fine. I am trying to think of something disappointing with an MP...Slippery vulcanite when your hands are sweaty...um...

 

Buy film.

 

Buy more film.

 

Buy ... yea well .. more film again.

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If you are a left eye dominant dont worry, you will be, or should be re learning to shoot right.

 

(My emphasis)

 

Why?

 

IMHO, this one of the biggest nonsenses ever spouted in the world of M's. This is tantamount to the Victorians forcing left-handed children to write with their right hand.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with shooting with your left eye should you choose to do so.

 

If you use an M2 and a 35 and glasses, you will have to "look round" in the viewfinder to see the whole frameline.

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I'm very right-eye dominant. I can already see that rangefinders require a learning curve, but if it were not a rewarding one, these cameras would have gone extinct long ago.

 

I want to start with a camera that meters through the lens, because I think it will help with that learning curve, so that would mean M6 or later. As I understand, the M6 "classic" and TTL distinction has to do with the flash capabilities and not the metering per se.

 

One of the things you touch on, Rob, is the use of older lenses and newer lenses of the same focal length. I'm sure there are a few vintage and modern classics that would impart a distinctive "look" to photographs. This is an area that interests me and is not really available with many modern cameras besides the M series. The collapsible lenses particularly fascinate me.

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If you want to have a look at some of my examples of a mid 50s 35 f 3.5 Summaron, have a look at the links on this current thread

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/37711-just-acquired-mint-3-5cm-summaron.html#post395860

 

The signature of this lens is completely different from a more modern one, but does have its own "charm"

 

My advice would be to find a decent dealer, with both new and second hand stock, so that you can have a play.

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If you are a left eye dominant dont worry, you will be, or should be re learning to shoot right

 

Really?? I'm a left eye shooter and I've never had any problems.

 

I can think of two advantages of shooting with your right eye, you can keep both open to see the frame lines 'floating' in the air. But that will only really work with a 1:1 viewfinder - something Leica don't make. And it's easier to wind on the camera without taking it away from the eye - I bought a Rapidwinder to get round that. So shooting with my left eye has never bothered me in the least - even before I bought the Rapidwinder.

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Someone at Leicaa layed out the camera for right eye. How is a rapid winder faster than winding on with your thumb? I dont fog viewfinders in the tropics. I can watch where I am walking. I see other things, stuff out of frame. I am so left eye dominant it isnt funny. I made the effort to change, its only practice. Practice? Effort? I shoot left now and never look back. Shooting both eyes open is freedom. You dont need 1:1 viewfinder to superimpose because you fade one or the other scene in or out. You like blinkers on then great, shoot right. Id swear some of you guys would tell Steinway his pianos would be better if they had one row of decimal keys:D.

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If you want to have a look at some of my examples of a mid 50s 35 f 3.5 Summaron, have a look at the links on this current thread

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/37711-just-acquired-mint-3-5cm-summaron.html#post395860

 

The signature of this lens is completely different from a more modern one, but does have its own "charm"

 

My advice would be to find a decent dealer, with both new and second hand stock, so that you can have a play.

 

Great photos, Andy. What film did you use? The grain is beautiful. The more I see pixels, the more I miss grain.

 

Incidentally, I've heard the "film is dead" sermon now from a friend whose wife is a photographer and my own mother. Why they argue with me when I opine that film and digital will be coexisting for a long time to come is beyond me. Everybody's got their agenda, I suppose.

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JBA, as no one has yet proferred the words...

 

Welcome! to the Forum!

 

You mention control in your original post.

 

The MP is "control".

 

Get a proper lens e.g. 35mmf2ASPH and start shooting. Expand to a 50mmf1.4ASPH or maybe a 28mmf2ASPH once you find your rangefinding skills (which will come with shooting, trust me).

 

Finally, consider LASIK. It's cheap ($900) anymore and you can shed those specs permanently.

 

:)

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

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Thanks, Alan. Actually, Stuart already welcomed me to the forum, but I'm new enough that I'll be appreciating welcomes for some time.

 

What I mean by control, specifically, is the ability to control focus and depth of field. These are not available to me with my C-Lux 2. Nevertheless, I think my modest point-and-shoot is going to satisfy my desire for digital images for the time being.

 

One concern I have with film is that I do not have a darkroom available to me, which means giving up a large degree of control in the final print. Then again, these days you scan and tweak things in Photoshop . . . to a degree, anyway.

 

I think the MP or the M7 would give me an excellent degree of control, but unless I get lucky and find a 0.58 version used, it means a la carte, and it may take time for me to recover from the sticker shock. In my limited experience, the MP appeals to me most in tactile terms.

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One concern I have with film is that I do not have a darkroom available to me, which means giving up a large degree of control in the final print. Then again, these days you scan and tweak things in Photoshop . . . to a degree, anyway.

 

I think the MP or the M7 would give me an excellent degree of control, but unless I get lucky and find a 0.58 version used, it means a la carte, and it may take time for me to recover from the sticker shock. In my limited experience, the MP appeals to me most in tactile terms.

 

I scaned negatives for years and the control you can have in Photoshop is enormous, certainly more than I ever had with wet printing - which isn't to say they are the same.

 

Regarding used 0.58 cameras. Ffordes in the UK - ffordes photographic : Main Index - currently have three 0.58 M7s in stock from £1450 and a 0.58 MP at £1599. These prices include 17.50% sales tax which would be removed for international sales.

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Hey JBA, I wear glasses, and I'm happy with 35mm and the 0.72 viewfinder. This wouldn't let me see the whole frame with wider lenses, so if you plan on using even a 28, take the other viewfinder. Try to test-drive the camera before and I'm sure you'll soon know which one is more comfortable for you. The MP is wonderful, but it is true that there are cheaper (and probably not that much different in practice) alternatives, namely M6.

 

I would advice to start with only one lens, 35 or 50 mm, and use it until you know it inside-out. f1.4 better than f2, but this is a matter of taste. One last thing, people may say that they don't like a particular lens because it's big, you have to take this in the context of rangefinder lenses, if you are used to reflex, then all will feel nice and compact in your hands, my point is, this is somewhat relative to what you are used and/or willing to carry.

 

As said before, welcome, and good luck with your purchase.

:)

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