grantray Posted October 30, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/world/asia/30afghan.html?ref=world Shot with M8. want proof? fine. http://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=df33a5251fb7f091b20855bb3dda6cfbc4609f6c -grant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Hi grantray, Take a look here to all the complainers. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ken_tanaka Posted October 30, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 30, 2007 By this announcement you are ... what? Proclaiming that the M8 is faultless and that those who have trouble with the camera and/or its images are simply incompetent? I hope you're not really being that arrogant and naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 30, 2007 Share #3 Posted October 30, 2007 Hi Grant, I can't see how that helps anyone who's had a problem with an M8. Sure most of us haven't had any issues, but are we really saying that anyone with an issue shouldn't mention it? The thing that is missing from all the issues that have been reported is a a knowledge of how widespread they are. Only Leica know that, but I would guess problems are at a low level otherwise the company would have gone bust. I think the problem with many of the issues being reported is the tone of the author. To claim that an M8 is 'rubbish' is patently nonsense, but to say that you are disapointed is surely allowed. I've had no problems with my M8, but I wouldn't have been happy if I'd bought an example that had failed. Of course any electronic device can fail, even if rarely, but it's difficult to keep a sense of proportion when you've spent several thousand GBP and not received a working camera. I expect most of us would be annoyed, if only for the fact that we were being deprived of using such a superb camera while it was being repaired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantray Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted October 30, 2007 Oh no, I'm not saying we shouldn't have mention of issues at all. But, good God, the negativism that stews here is is amazing. I've had issues with my M8 and Leica just like everyone else. Their pro services is non-existant as far as I'm concerned. But the fact remains, (yes, fact), that outstanding results are absolutely possible using this camera. There are tons of users getting great results. I beat the crap out of my camera. I use lenses from the thirties, fifties, eighties, and now. I experiment. Yes, this system is "interactive" unlike DSLR's. But if folks here here think the M8 is a pain in the ass as far as adjusting to a system, they should try shooting Alpa with a digi-back. Photography has ALWAYS been about the willingness to chance. If you want an automatic that does everything right and always runs, go buy a Honda. Leicas have always been finicky. We used to blame ourselves instead of the gear, but the gear has always had issues. Always... -grant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 30, 2007 Share #5 Posted October 30, 2007 Very, very; ......confusing. I followed the link, but I'm sure my M8 doesn't shoot video. I guess it must be more faulty than I realised. ................... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 30, 2007 Share #6 Posted October 30, 2007 ... The thing that is missing from all the issues that have been reported is a a knowledge of how widespread they are. Only Leica know that ... QUOTE] I have been reading the grousing for almost a year now and am willing to concede that it *would* be very disappointing if my M8 were faulty. The perspective that keeps occurring to me is that of the computers on my desktop. 'Course, I'm still a windoze user for most applications, so they may be more faulty than average, but in my update to Leopard on my G4 Powerbook this Sunday, the software managed to disable the airport function. The hardware *could* have failed during the software upgrade, but only a trip to my friendly Apple store will determine this. Interesting how much more interesting that NYT picture seems than it appeared on the front page of my hardcopy at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 30, 2007 Share #7 Posted October 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) But the fact remains, (yes, fact), that outstanding results are absolutely possible using this camera. … Yes, this system is "interactive" unlike DSLR's. But if folks here here think the M8 is a pain in the ass as far as adjusting to a system…, -grant Yes love the results that one can get, no problem using a rangefinder instead of an AF DSLR but I am not talking about that. The camera has internal functional problems, often reported here, that should have been sorted out yonks ago. Venetian blinds, batteries in and out for lock ups, scroll wheel that does not work properly etc. Did the DMR module thingy do all this? And £900 lenses that fall to pieces? I ask you. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 30, 2007 Share #8 Posted October 30, 2007 Why does the guy in the photo have a magenta beard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantray Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted October 30, 2007 Very, very; ......confusing. I followed the link, but I'm sure my M8 doesn't shoot video. I guess it must be more faulty than I realised. ................... Chris I'm also sure your M8 doesn't shoot video. At the very end of the video you can see the photographer showing Bataloff, (senior "magenta" beard), his portrait just taken with a black M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 30, 2007 Share #10 Posted October 30, 2007 Very, very; ......confusing. I followed the link, but I'm sure my M8 doesn't shoot video. I guess it must be more faulty than I realised. ................... Chris well at the end of the video you see someone holding a M8, for about 5-10 seconds, and showing a image that was taken to someone. I had nothing better to do at the end of the day at work so that's why I watched the whole video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 30, 2007 Share #11 Posted October 30, 2007 ...........ex crayon worker.......frustrated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted October 30, 2007 Share #12 Posted October 30, 2007 I have had great stuff from the M8 published in the Wall Street Journal, the Rocky Mountain News, L.A. Times and more than a few other pubs in the past few months. But when I have a lock up in which I lose a dozen shots and the opportunity to get more because I am fiddling to unlock it, or I have to unscrew the UV-IR filter to shoot a lens on a Kodachrome body, I am a little irritated and have a right to be. And when I post it on this or another forum, I am not "Complaining" as you seem to think, I am merely doing what anyone would do when they expect $5,000 professional tool to deliver. And more pros than just the NYT guys use the M8 by the way. But that does not mean they do not run into the same issues as we all do and get just as ticked. By the way, out of all the cameras I have used for decades, only one has been faultless: My brassed Nikon FM3A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afineman Posted October 30, 2007 Share #13 Posted October 30, 2007 I shot this story with an M8 as well: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/24/automobiles/autospecial/24school.html?_r=1&oref=slogin But I will add that this M8 has major bugs and it will be going back to Leica asap for repairs. -Aaron Lee Fineman http://www.aaronleefineman.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 30, 2007 Share #14 Posted October 30, 2007 This is very fun. Tomas Munita, the photographer in the NYT piece, was a winner of the Barnack Award last year. If I remember correctly, his prize was... you guessed right, a Leica M8. His pictures from Afghanistan were the winning entry. He's a real talent, and is obviously now working for the Times. Sorry to hijack the thread, but it's relevant... JB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 30, 2007 Share #15 Posted October 30, 2007 I shot this story with an M8 as well:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/24/automobiles/autospecial/24school.html?_r=1&oref=slogin But I will add that this M8 has major bugs and it will be going back to Leica asap for repairs. -Aaron Lee Fineman Aaron Lee Fineman Photography - New York City Aaron - nice photos. JB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmanzz Posted October 31, 2007 Share #16 Posted October 31, 2007 Very nice shots Aaron, and an excellent article overall, may I ask what lens you were using? RF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaurizio Posted October 31, 2007 Share #17 Posted October 31, 2007 While so far I have not complained about either the Leica M8, its lenses and the level of service provided by the mother company (and we have many reasons to do so), I cannot understand how people airing their problems and those trying desperately to prove that the M8 is paramount to the last Coca Cola of the desert benefit from these attitudes. In my opinion, a professional is a person that uses a cool head and his long-developed craft to produce results that generate profit or material compensation. As such, the selection of his tools, the care and maintenance of them and the ability to produce consistent results are of the greatest importance. Brand loyalty makes sense as long as the learning curve and the investment made make it feasible. But blind acceptance of whatever product and service any company provides, is just not compatible with the fact that these tools are a means to make money. Sadly, manufacturers are now more compelled serving amateur and semi-pro markets, as thousands of dSLR and even dRangefinder sales attest to. In this case, someone might think it is just 'acceptable' for a company to have a delay of more than 8 weeks to provide a functioning element back to its rightful owner, while keeping him in the dark about how much time it will take. This has nothing to do with the fact that any camera system is able to provide good technical images. On the other hand, venting anger on a public forum is not helpful either. Looking for assistance to be able to conduct problem determination is. If a mistake was made by a dealer or Leica, the president of the company returns emails the next business day, and being a former IBMer, he does follow up on matters, regardless of the value involved. That is what a professional does, escalation of the problem till he finds a satisfactory answer. If the problems are such that the equipment in question ceases to provide the function it was intended to, no other choice than selling the equipment and moving to another brand remains. Of course, at a significant loss of time and money. Not a happy idea. If there is a responsible of having bad customer service or lousy products, it is we, the consumers who accept those products, whining in forums instead of taking the time to convince the supplier to do things right. The M8 is a very good product for a first version from a company whose skill is opto-mechanics and not electronics. It is far from perfect, and leaves much to be desired at the pro-customer-service level. Leica is doing a great effort, and that deserves praise. Many pro and advanced amateurs will see their needs almost completely, if not totally fulfilled by the M8 and a group of lenses, be it CV, Zeiss or Leica. Others, like us, need to use (anchors? bricks? dead-weights?) products like the D2X, Canon 5D, D3, Hasselblad, or even 4x5 / 8x10 film. That is something to respect, since many have spent countless days, weeks and years developing the skill and trying to keep up with the new advances. Some customers demand that skill, others could not care less. No single piece of evidence will put these matters to rest for good, be it pictures coming from outer space with a Nikon D2H, war pictures taken with a Leica, or a snapshot with a P&S that captures that 'elusive moment' for good, for ever. Let's hope that the manufacturers and their commercial agents take notice of these ideas, go back to the drawing board to fix those things that do not work, correct those processes that have stupid weeks of delay with equipment sitting at desks, keep their customers informed of what is going on, and promote serious talk and idea exchange to improve the products and try to please its loyal customer base. Good light, lots of inspiration, and enough ink to print them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbsimages Posted October 31, 2007 Share #18 Posted October 31, 2007 i had an m8 for awhile and found it a dream to work with--even with its warts. do i ever wish it was reliable as the leica film cameras!! just the ability to shoot in crowds and sensitive areas and come out with amazing images was why i loved the 8. well my 'trusty' new canon is heading back into repair due to some fangled sub-mirror being off---this is the beast that is supposed to serve me well day-in and day-out but for some reason it can't track the nfl players it was designed to shoot. i also have deposit on a 1Ds 3 (makes the leica look cheap) but it probably is being retrofitted as we speak before it hits the dealers. oh well, such his life with pro-gear. i would never call an m8 'rubbish', but do find the warts annoying as they appear at the worst of times. but again, my Japanese marvel can't focus right (at least some of the time). i hope leica keeps at it as i'd love to get another 8 or model 9 at some point. it would also be nice if the price was lower for us working types--but it ain't going to happen in my life I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afineman Posted October 31, 2007 Share #19 Posted October 31, 2007 Thanks John, I used a combination of lenses, all with Leica IRUV filters. The CV15mm, Leica 21mm asph, 28mm f2.0 asph, and 35 f1.5 asph for this series. I shot RAW and made minor adjustments to the photos in Lightroom. As for some of the other coments made. The reason that I use Leica rangefinders is no so much brand loyalty as it is the way that I prefer to work. I have been digital since 2001 (and even shot some digital in 1998) but I have never been happier than I have been since I began using the M8. I just don't care for SLR's. I spent 6 years cursing the Canon auto focus as well as the lack of sharpenss with their lenses while my Leica's collected dust (for the most part). I am finally able to work the way I love to work and my photographic vision is coming across even clearer due to the M8. I only wish it did not have the bugs that it has. That said, the customer service is very good. Not as great as Canon, but better than Nikon was when I switched to Canon. I still have my Canon dslr's, mostly as backup and I sometimes use them with long lenses (not a strong point with rangefinders). I wish that people would spend more time using their cameras to take photographs rather than spending time on forums complaining about them. Happy shooting to all. -Aaron Lee Fineman http://www.aaronleefineman.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 31, 2007 Share #20 Posted October 31, 2007 'Course, I'm still a windoze user for most applications, so they may be more faulty than average, but in my update to Leopard on my G4 Powerbook this Sunday, the software managed to disable the airport function. Do a Software Update. There's already a patch fix for this, released at the weekend. Mac OS X and iPod Troubleshooting, Support, and Help - MacFixIt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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