anonymous Posted February 26, 2023 Share #1 Posted February 26, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) The last few rolls of film I’ve developed have a strange issue: on maybe 10% of the negatives there’s a horizontal dark bar on the top ~10%. I’ve seen it on my m5, m2, and m6, so I don’t think it’s a light leak. It’d be really weird for 3 cameras (2 of which have recent CLAs) to have the same exact light leak. I just purchased a new 28mm elmarit ASPH, so at first I thought it might be an issue with the lens when light hits it a certain way (i use it with the hood and without), but I saw it on a 50mm image as well. My current thinking is something is wrong with my development process. I use a Paterson 2 reel tank that’s developed hundreds of rolls. Could it bee the reels going bad or something? I sent this image to DAG when I first saw it thinking it was a light leak but seeing it on different cameras is perplexing. Have any of you seen anything like this? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368802-strange-horizontal-bar-on-negatives-driving-me-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=4701524'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 26, 2023 Posted February 26, 2023 Hi anonymous, Take a look here Strange horizontal bar on negatives driving me crazy!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
anonymous Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share #2 Posted February 26, 2023 Here’s another example on my m2 taken with a 50mm. This one looks like it has dark bars on both the top and bottom — same size. Most only have it on top. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368802-strange-horizontal-bar-on-negatives-driving-me-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=4701526'>More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted February 26, 2023 Share #3 Posted February 26, 2023 Can you post an image of the negative strip. Is it one batch of film ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #4 Posted February 27, 2023 It’s on three separate rolls of film processed in 3 separate “sessions” Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted February 27, 2023 Share #5 Posted February 27, 2023 On the M series or Barnack Type camera? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 27, 2023 Share #6 Posted February 27, 2023 4 hours ago, anonymous said: It’s on three separate rolls of film processed in 3 separate “sessions” I think most of your questions are valid so far, the same fault on different cameras is curious. The bottom wall photo looks like it could have a bar along the bottom of the image as well as the top? If it only affects 10% of the images it's not consistent enough to be a developing fault, besides which Paterson reels last forever. It's not putting too little developer in the tank or it would affect all the roll. Can you actually see it on the negative? Is it a scanning fault, ambient light or a reflection if you are scanning with a camera? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted February 27, 2023 Share #7 Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 hours ago, anonymous said: It’s on three separate rolls of film processed in 3 separate “sessions” 18 hours ago, FrozenInTime said: Can you post an image of the negative strip. Is it one batch of film ? Here, I was thinking along the lines of a production fault on a batch of film ( or light seals on the cassettes ), so if the three films used were all identical, you should test something different to exclude that possibility. Edited February 27, 2023 by FrozenInTime Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted February 27, 2023 Share #8 Posted February 27, 2023 I would run a color neg film through and give it to a lab to process, perhaps some pictures taken in a dark room with a illuminated subject to avoid influence by possible lightleaks and the other way round. If the CN-film is OK, it is either the processing or the batch of BW film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #9 Posted February 27, 2023 5 hours ago, 250swb said: I think most of your questions are valid so far, the same fault on different cameras is curious. The bottom wall photo looks like it could have a bar along the bottom of the image as well as the top? If it only affects 10% of the images it's not consistent enough to be a developing fault, besides which Paterson reels last forever. It's not putting too little developer in the tank or it would affect all the roll. Can you actually see it on the negative? Is it a scanning fault, ambient light or a reflection if you are scanning with a camera? Yes, you can see it on the negative - clear as day. 3 hours ago, Fotoklaus said: I would run a color neg film through and give it to a lab to process, perhaps some pictures taken in a dark room with a illuminated subject to avoid influence by possible lightleaks and the other way round. If the CN-film is OK, it is either the processing or the batch of BW film. Currently running some c41 through a fourth camera, but I completely agree with this. In fact, this is exactly what Don at DAG and I discussed doing as a next debugging step. 3 hours ago, FrozenInTime said: Here, I was thinking along the lines of a production fault on a batch of film ( or light seals on the cassettes ), so if the three films used were all identical, you should test something different to exclude that possibility. Ah, very interesting idea! In all cases the film was HP5+. 2 rolls shot at 800 and one pulled to 200. I’ll run some tri-x through one of them to be 100% sure it’s not a film batch issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 27, 2023 Share #10 Posted February 27, 2023 How do you move your Paterson tank? Is it possible that about ten percent of the image area are only submerged in the developer part of the time? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclectic Man Posted February 27, 2023 Share #11 Posted February 27, 2023 You could try shooting a plain white wall to show the effect. I'm sure we all want to know what is going on. You could also contact Ilford and ask what they think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #12 Posted February 27, 2023 1 minute ago, pop said: How do you move your Paterson tank? Is it possible that about ten percent of the image area are only submerged in the developer part of the time? Great hypothesis! In all cases I was only developing 1 roll at a time. The tank calls for 290 mL per roll -- I use 300. I use the agitation stick to agitate instead of inverting. As such, I feel like if it had to do with developer contact it would be present on all the negatives and not just some of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #13 Posted February 27, 2023 7 hours ago, 250swb said: I think most of your questions are valid so far, the same fault on different cameras is curious. The bottom wall photo looks like it could have a bar along the bottom of the image as well as the top? If it only affects 10% of the images it's not consistent enough to be a developing fault, besides which Paterson reels last forever. It's not putting too little developer in the tank or it would affect all the roll. Can you actually see it on the negative? Is it a scanning fault, ambient light or a reflection if you are scanning with a camera? I don't think it has to do with scanning because I can see the lines on the negatives themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 27, 2023 Share #14 Posted February 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, anonymous said: present on all the negatives and not just some of them. Not if the reel was not strictly horizontal, or the tank. If you look at the whole affected film: is the line growing narrower and wider with a perceptible pattern? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #15 Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, pop said: Not if the reel was not strictly horizontal, or the tank. If you look at the whole affected film: is the line growing narrower and wider with a perceptible pattern? No, it's always the same width. And it's often not on contiguous images -- it may be on frame 3 and then reappear on 10, then 19, etc. (I'm making these numbers up as an example, this isn't the actual gap). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #16 Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) Here is an image of the negative from the picture of my son above Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 27, 2023 by anonymous Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368802-strange-horizontal-bar-on-negatives-driving-me-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=4702979'>More sharing options...
pop Posted February 27, 2023 Share #17 Posted February 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, anonymous said: I'm making these numbers up as an example, this isn't the actual gap You might be able to see a pattern if you looked at the actual numbers or, perhaps, at the running length of the film. Another idea: how do you put the films into the tank? Are you sure your changing bag is tight? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #18 Posted February 27, 2023 And here is that negative in context. You can see the image on the bottom left also has the bar, but none of the ones around it have that problem. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368802-strange-horizontal-bar-on-negatives-driving-me-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=4702984'>More sharing options...
pop Posted February 27, 2023 Share #19 Posted February 27, 2023 I think the issue is clearly visible in the frames 14, 22 and a bit fainter in 16 and 21. It's hard to say if it's present in 15 on account of the content. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #20 Posted February 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, pop said: I think the issue is clearly visible in the frames 14, 22 and a bit fainter in 16 and 21. It's hard to say if it's present in 15 on account of the content. I think you're correct about that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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