Leica Standard

[pgk]

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Ok, I know its a bit odd😉 but I want to shoot film with the most basic of cameras after some umming and aching, I decided I wanted a camera with truly interchangeable (standardised) lenses and one primarily for handheld use and I have inevitably been drawn into the world of Barnack. So I have bought myself a Leica Standard (actually I have ended up with two bodies but theirin lies a story) which is now around 90 years old. The serial number (101069) suggests that it is early and is the 69th Standard made, and the late '11 o'clock' Elmar (126961) is of similar age. Condition is as good as I would expect from such an old 35mm camera. At sometime in the not too distant past it lloks as though the shutter blinds have had their cloth replaced. The lens also looks like it may have had a coating applied at some point too. Any comments, suggestions or other information gratefully received😀.

One question I do have is about using the lens on a digital M. The Leica adapter I have is too wide and won't allow infinity focus. Can anyone recommend a third party adapter which will work with this lens?

And which (affordable) hood would look well on it?

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Edited February 9, 2023 by pgk

[Jul]

9 minutes ago, pgk said:

One question I do have is about using the lens on a digital M. The Leica adapter I have is too wide and won't allow infinity focus.

You might find interesting answers in this thread:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/358908-is-an-11-oclock-infinity-lock-lens-usable-on-a-m-body/

Edited February 9, 2023 by Jul
Correct link

[wizard]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb pgk:

And which (affordable) hood would look well on it?

Well, on any LTM Elmar 50 lens, in my view the hood has to be a FISON. I just checked, and plenty of those seem to be available in the range of 70 - 90 Euro. Make sure the corresponding cap is included.

Edited February 9, 2023 by wizard
correction

[willeica]

59 minutes ago, pgk said:

Ok, I know its a bit odd😉 but I want to shoot film with the most basic of cameras after some umming and aching, I decided I wanted a camera with truly interchangeable (standardised) lenses and one primarily for handheld use and I have inevitably been drawn into the world of Barnack. So I have bought myself a Leica Standard (actually I have ended up with two bodies but theirin lies a story) which is now around 90 years old. The serial number (101069) suggests that it is early and is the 69th Standard made, and the late '11 o'clock' Elmar (126961) is of similar age. Condition is as good as I would expect from such an old 35mm camera. At sometime in the not too distant past it lloks as though the shutter blinds have had their cloth replaced. The lens also looks like it may have had a coating applied at some point too. Any comments, suggestions or other information gratefully received😀.

One question I do have is about using the lens on a digital M. The Leica adapter I have is too wide and won't allow infinity focus. Can anyone recommend a third party adapter which will work with this lens?

And which (affordable) hood would look well on it?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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Did you try using the bell push, Paul? That might help as it depresses the catch. Adapters with cutaways may give rise to 'no lens attached' issues, but not always depending on where you place the cutaway or just cover the sensor thing. A two edged sword, really, but I have used Elmars and Summars etc on digital Ms and they have worked very well.

Black paint FISONs now fetch a lot of money, but chrome ones are more common and cheaper, if you don't committing mind a 'period correct' sin.

William 

[pgk]

2 minutes ago, willeica said:

Did you try using the bell push, Paul?

Yes. Its as per the thread Jul linked to. Easiest solution will be to buy a third party adapter and carefully take a file to it I think! A FISON it will be but probably neither black nor period looking at the prices!

[pippy]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

...The lens also looks like it may have had a coating applied at some point too. Any comments, suggestions or other information gratefully received😀.

One question I do have is about using the lens on a digital M. The Leica adapter I have is too wide and won't allow infinity focus. Can anyone recommend a third party adapter which will work with this lens?

And which (affordable) hood would look well on it?

Nice catch, Paul! Congrats......and what's the story about it having a sibling?......

I have a very similar pairing and have found that most of the time 'Guesstimate' focussing with a 50mm works fine apart from close-range wide-open but even then the miss rate is quite low. My lens preference for use with the Leica 1 is actually an FSU Jupiter-12 35mm f2.8. My example is in Black Paint so matches the body superbly well. Compared to Leica LTM 35mm lenses they are common as muck and cheap as chips. Very Highly Recommended!

Is the issue with your existing adapter with this lens the Infinity-Lock? My only 11 o'clock Elmar is an earlier one without the 'Bell-Push' infinity lock on yours so I don't know how useful this might be but the adapter I use - and, having just checked, which works perfectly with the lens mentioned as well as later 7 o'clock Elmars with infinity-lock buttons - is branded 'Gobe'. They have since been re-branded 'Urth' and are of a fine quality. In the UK they can be had for around the £35 mark. Here's one as an example;

https://uk.urth.co/products/m39-lens-mount-to-leica-m-camera-mount-50-75mm-frame-lines?currency=GBP&variant=35444710703269&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI68nb8PeI_QIVDYFQBh3McQwOEAQYASABEgJFRfD_BwE

As has been said the FISON is the correct hood. Oddly enough just yesterday I was reading-up on these hoods and, as William says above, the B-Paint ones are pricey. However! I believe I'm correct in thinking that a FIKUS variable f/length hood will also work with the Elmar - William will know for sure - and these can be found in Nickel/Black two-tone finish. As it happens Peter Loy (no afilliation) has one advertised at this very moment and it's condition would match the patina of your camera perfectly. They are quite a bit heavier than the FISON, apparently, but have the advantage of being able to be used with A36-fit lenses from 35mm to 135mm.

Philip.

Edited February 9, 2023 by pippy

[pgk]

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11 minutes ago, pippy said:

Nice catch, Paul! Congrats......and what's the story about it having a sibling?......

As has been said the FISON is the correct hood.

Thanks Philip. Story being that I had already bought 636th Standard body when I saw the combination of the earlier body and lens which was a good enough buy to go for. So I have a 'spare' Standard body. That said I doubt Standards will become cheaper as I have read that many were upgraded and they are a really great part of Leica history. I have found in the past that an inevitable, additional lens usually usurps the 'spareness' of a camera body anyway. Now for a nickel 35/3.5 ..... 😉.

Its the 'Bell-Push' which catches on the adapter at infinity so a modified adapter will sort this.

And just picked up a Fison for £24 +P&P so I will live with it being chrome (hoods are something I always use, especially on uncoated lenses).

Edited February 9, 2023 by pgk

[pippy]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

...Any comments, suggestions or other information gratefully received...

One other thing I menat to mention earlier was regarding 'How To Carry My Camera?'...

I don't know your views on ERCases but neither your nor my Leica 1 has strap lugs. If doing a semi-serious snapping day I'll usually use a wrist strap with an adapter which screws into the tripod thread but if I'm just carrying it around on a day-trip my solution with the J-12 (which is a LOT longer than the collapsed Elmar!) was to acquire an old FSU FED-1 case and chop the front section off (the thing now resembles a 'half-case') and this works really well.

These cases can usually be found for around the £10 - £15 mark even when in good condition.

Philip.

Edited February 9, 2023 by pippy

[Pyrogallol]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

Thanks Philip. Story being that I had already bought 636th Standard body when I saw the combination of the earlier body and lens which was a good enough buy to go for. So I have a 'spare' Standard body. That said I doubt Standards will become cheaper as I have read that many were upgraded and they are a really great part of Leica history. I have found in the past that an inevitable, additional lens usually usurps the 'spareness' of a camera body anyway. Now for a nickel 35/3.5 ..... 😉.

Its the 'Bell-Push' which catches on the adapter at infinity so a modified adapter will sort this.

And just picked up a Fison for £24 +P&P so I will live with it being chrome (hoods are something I always use, especially on uncoated lenses).

A cheap chrome hood can always be painted black.

[pgk]

Just now, Pyrogallol said:

A cheap chrome hood can always be painted black.

Indeed, but I'm not that much of a purist. Period would be nice but I'm happy with usability. (I've been known to make hoods out of toilet roll tubes before now😉).

[Pyrogallol]

Chrome, black and one I made up from a broken non-Leitz top with an empty Leitz filter ring glued on. The Hammerite black paint is getting chipped off.

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[spydrxx]

I agree that a black spray painting of a silver one, as long as you're not a purist, makes sense. Not sure about the infinity catch, but I've been able to unscrew the "buttons" of several of mine so that focus to infinity is smooth and I don't have to be concerned with adapter modifications, although in the beginning I did machine a groove in an adapter to allow the infinity button to depress.

[willeica]

2 hours ago, pgk said:

Thanks Philip. Story being that I had already bought 636th Standard body when I saw the combination of the earlier body and lens which was a good enough buy to go for. So I have a 'spare' Standard body. That said I doubt Standards will become cheaper as I have read that many were upgraded and they are a really great part of Leica history. I have found in the past that an inevitable, additional lens usually usurps the 'spareness' of a camera body anyway. Now for a nickel 35/3.5 ..... 😉.

Its the 'Bell-Push' which catches on the adapter at infinity so a modified adapter will sort this.

And just picked up a Fison for £24 +P&P so I will live with it being chrome (hoods are something I always use, especially on uncoated lenses).

I have quite a few FISONs. Here are two black and two chrome variants from my collection. The black one on the left is now worth probably as much as 5 times what I paid for it. It is one of the rare 'square front' items which I spotted in a job lot. It gives additional fun and hand exercise as it has to be adjusted every time that you focus. The little white line must always be at top centre. 

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Changing aperture with a FISON hood is a bit of a palaver. You could also treat yourself to a Black VALOO hood with aperture adjustment, but I'm not sure the aperture markings would line up with those on an early lens. I have one, but I have not used it for years. It is large and a bit clunky to use. I believe I read somewhere that it was originally intended for darkroom work. In truth, the 50mm/5cm Elmar is not very prone to fIare and in most photos of early users you will see it being used without a hood.

I have a box full of adapters and if one does not work, I just pull out another one. The main point is cover those sensors for the six bit code nonsense and also to ensure that you can focus at infinity at the same time. Good old depth of field helps with that. With a Standard you will probably be using zone focus unless you want annoy yourself some more by using a FODIS/FODUA or a FOKOS/HFOOK. The latter is nicer on a Standard as it gives a lower profile. My example below is on a I Model A converted to a Standard. This is the camera with the very short 5 cm Elmar, converted from 11 O'Clock to 7 O'Clock. Jerzy has explained the reason for for the missing barrel mms on another thread recently. 

Your lens seems to be feet scale if I am not mistaken, something to look out for if you are getting a separate rangefinder.

Another project might be to put on a 3.5cm/35mm Lens and a rapid winder like a SCNOO to produce a 'Poor Man's Snapshot Leica' like this for zone focus use. The viewfinder I have on this is a relatively modern Voigtlander 35mm item. Not only does it work well, but it looks very nice on this combo.

Plenty of ideas there, Paul. Have fun with your new Standard. I look forward to seeing the results.

William 

[thomas_schertel]

You could also use the FIKUS shade. It is mostly black.

Yours sincerely 

Thomas 

[pgk]

3 minutes ago, willeica said:

I have a box full of adapters and if one does not work, I just pull out another one.

A helpful explanation is here https://cameraquest.com/adaptltm.htm.  Looks like Types 1 or 3 are required for infinity lock lenses.

[pippy]

3 hours ago, pgk said:

Indeed, but I'm not that much of a purist. Period would be nice but I'm happy with usability. (I've been known to make hoods out of toilet roll tubes before now😉).

In all seriousness I add a strip cut from a roll of black background paper and wrap it around the front end of all the hoods of my DSLR lenses to extend the hood-depth as the dedicated ones supplied by the manufacturer (Canon) are too conservative in their design - and these are only ever used in the studio. Goodness only knows how these lenses fare in the field.

As far as changing the aperture scale of an Elmar when a FISON is being used is concerned I thought it noteworthy that of the 75 plates detailed in Paul's '1945 MetaData' thread no fewer that 60 of them - 80% of the total - were shot at f6.3. Food for thought?...

And thank you, Thomas_Scherte (post #14), for confirming that a FIKUS will work. I mentioned the hood previously (post #6) with the caveat that I wasn't absolutely sure that it was fully compatible so I'm happy to have that question resolved.

Philip.

Edited February 9, 2023 by pippy

[willeica]

2 hours ago, thomas_schertel said:

You could also use the FIKUS shade. It is mostly black.

Yours sincerely 

Thomas 

True, Thomas, but that is even bigger than a VALOO. I have a few of them, including the US (New York) version on the right below with no black, which is called an ADVIK or ADFIK, I have seen both names used. 

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As for the actual FIKUS on the left above, there are several variants. Laney showed 6 variants, but there may be more.

William 

Edited February 9, 2023 by willeica

[Anbaric]

I like the versatile FIKUS, though as Philip suggests it certainly isn't a lightweight hood. Mine is 60g, which must be half the weight of an Elmar. Still, if it's good enough for Paul Wolff...

[Ambro5I]

Geez. I can  see you guys brooding over a few cameras adapters hoods shades etc. all day long.......trying to figure out Exactly what will be THE prefect combo to step outdoors with.......and the Sun sets in the West and you’re still shuffling  hoods shades lenses and cameras about.      🙂

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On 2/10/2023 at 2:42 AM, pgk said:

So I have a 'spare' Standard body

one for color film and the other for b&w film, that how i use my iiic and iiif together