Would you buy this lense?

[Aeio-u]

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Hello,

I have been offered a Leica Summicron R 50mm/f2 and I am close to buy it but I have some doubts. 

First of all, can anyone confirm that it is the RII version? I checked the serial number (3179981) and it was made in 1982. I would like someone to confirm that it is the second version of the Summicron. 

I have also heard that serial numbers starting around 300-340 are a very sought after version.

On the other hand, the photos show some signs of use. The rear glass looks in good condition but on the front there is a "haze" (marked in red). Will the photos appear damaged? Is it a hindrance? I have thought that I can repair it myself, try to open it and clean it following some tutorial. I can also take it to a specialist shop. Do you see more important fails in the lense?

The price is 300$. Irresistible offer but I don't want to buy something defective and unusable. 

Thank you all, I'm new in the Leica world. This is my first theme and I appreciate all the comments and information you can give me. 

Aeio-u

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Edited February 8, 2023 by Aeio-u
Forget one thing.

[andybarton]

Looks like a nice clean lens to me. The mark on the front element won't affect the photographs to any noticeable extent. Under no circumstances open the lens and fiddle around inside!

It doesn't have the ROM chip (which isn't a necessary feature for 99% of users), but does it have a pull out lens hood?

Leica will have made 1000s of these lenses. I have owned two in my time, and they are excellent.

[Aeio-u]

10 minutes ago, andybarton said:

Looks like a nice clean lens to me. The mark on the front element won't affect the photographs to any noticeable extent.

It doesn't have the ROM chip, but does it have a pull out lens hood?

At $300, I'd say it was a bargain.

I'm not sure. Do you talk about that pull out lens?

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[wizard]

Yes, this lens clearly is the second version of the Summicron-R 50, and it has the pull-out lens hood. That is, you can pull out the front part of the lens to act as a lens hood. Your lens is a so-called R only lens, so it will work only with Leica R3 - R9 cameras.

However, as already noted by someone else, there appears to be some fungus on the front element. I am pretty sure it will not affect optical performance yet, but I would be worried that the fungus keeps growing, and it also affects the resale value of the lens. The low price is likely due to the fungus developing on the front element. 

There are many copies of this lens around, so I would not buy this one, but rather look for a copy without fungus instead.

[andybarton]

If it is fungus on the front element, not just a mark, then I withdraw my comment about it being clean. Obviously.

[andybarton]

For £500 or less, you could have a 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R (via Red Dot in London). That is a superb lens, and very versatile. 

[wizard]

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vor 46 Minuten schrieb andybarton:

you could have a 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R (via Red Dot in London). That is a superb lens, and very versatile. 

+1. I like my 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R more than my Summicron 50mm.

[hansvons]

Don't buy it. There are literally hundreds of mint 50mm Summicron Rs out there. Their value knows only one way, and that's up. Invest 200 bucks more, and get a mint one regarding optics and mechanics. I don't mean literally mint in terms of almost new, but nothing to discuss: no dents, super-clean optics and, for sure, not the desire to open the housing. The focus barrel must turn super-smoothly, and the aperture must click nicely. Scratches and paint on the housing don't matter. I bought a couple of used R primes, all in pristine condition regarding lenses and mechanics but some with lots of wear on the outside.

Leica housings are very robust and can take a beating, similar to cine lenses. But their optics and handling must be unquestionable.

[andybarton]

1 hour ago, wizard said:

+1. I like my 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R more than my Summicron 50mm.

Me too. I paid about £600 for mine, must be 15 years ago, and that didn't have the 1:1 extension. The two in Red Dot are proper bargains.

[Aeio-u]

7 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Don't buy it. There are literally hundreds of mint 50mm Summicron Rs out there. Their value knows only one way, and that's up. Invest 200 bucks more, and get a mint one regarding optics and mechanics. I don't mean literally mint in terms of almost new, but nothing to discuss: no dents, super-clean optics and, for sure, not the desire to open the housing. The focus barrel must turn super-smoothly, and the aperture must click nicely. Scratches and paint on the housing don't matter. I bought a couple of used R primes, all in pristine condition regarding lenses and mechanics but some with lots of wear on the outside.

Leica housings are very robust and can take a beating, similar to cine lenses. But their optics and handling must be unquestionable.

 

2 hours ago, andybarton said:

If it is fungus on the front element, not just a mark, then I withdraw my comment about it being clean. Obviously.

 

2 hours ago, wizard said:

Yes, this lens clearly is the second version of the Summicron-R 50, and it has the pull-out lens hood. That is, you can pull out the front part of the lens to act as a lens hood. Your lens is a so-called R only lens, so it will work only with Leica R3 - R9 cameras.

However, as already noted by someone else, there appears to be some fungus on the front element. I am pretty sure it will not affect optical performance yet, but I would be worried that the fungus keeps growing, and it also affects the resale value of the lens. The low price is likely due to the fungus developing on the front element. 

There are many copies of this lens around, so I would not buy this one, but rather look for a copy without fungus instead.

I've got more photos. Maybe now we can differentiate if it has got fungus, haze or more fails.

Thanks. You are helping me a lot. 

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[andybarton]

"Just walk away, Renée", said The Four Tops.

If there is any suspicion of fungus, find a copy that doesn't have it. Fungus can spread among other lenses that you have, or will have in the future. The cost of removing it, is probably more than the difference between this "bargain" and a good copy.

Your example is mild, but it will only get worse

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fungus+lenses&atb=v363-7vb&iax=images&ia=images

[hansvons]

Agree with @andybarton.

[dpitt]

Anyway, if you buy it, have it CLA'd before using it. Finding an item in 100% condition after 40+ years is unlikely anyway. If it is fungus, a good CLA will get rid of it, and if not, you know that the results are as good as it gets. And in this case that is really good. It performs as good as the latest Summicron 50 M lens, which will cost you 3 times this or more.

The Macro Elmarit is of course very usable as standard lens and it is also great for macro. I think it will cost you more though.

 

 

[andybarton]

10 minutes ago, dpitt said:

I think it will cost you more though.

£500 including the 1:1 extension (including VAT) which may be refundable depending on where you live.

[Camaro5]

I have the first version of this lens, made in 1976.  It is the 3-cam version and has the clip-on hood.  I've used in on an R4S, SL2-S, and M246 (with adapters).

I've had it a few years now and it is in pristine condition.  I did pay a little more for it ($600 at the time) but the images are excellent and have a kind of retro look to them.   I still use it pretty often and like it as much as my CV 50/2 APO.  The APO obviously has a more modern look, but this old Summicron as a look all its own.  

SL2S & Summicron-R 50/2 (ver. I) 

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[wizard]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Aeio-u:

I've got more photos. Maybe now we can differentiate if it has got fungus, haze or more fails.

Your first photos were actually better. Look at the second and third photo, and you will a tree-like structure in the hazy section on the front element. That looks like fungus to me, so you will be better off buying another copy of the Summicron 50 (or the Macro-Elmarit 60, as suggested).

[wizard]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb andybarton:

I paid about £600 for mine, must be 15 years ago, and that didn't have the 1:1 extension.

I bought mine around the same time and paid EUR 750. Seems expensive at first, but that price not only included the mint Macro-Elmarit 60 lens, but also the 1:1 extension adapter, a mint black chrome Leicaflex SL2, an original leather everready case for the SL2, and an optically and mechanically mint (some wear on the lens housing though) first version Summicron-R 50mm including the lens hood 🙂.

[Aeio-u]

1 hour ago, wizard said:

Your first photos were actually better. Look at the second and third photo, and you will a tree-like structure in the hazy section on the front element. That looks like fungus to me, so you will be better off buying another copy of the Summicron 50 (or the Macro-Elmarit 60, as suggested).

Thank you. I rejected this one. 

[spydrxx]

Good decision. You'll be delighted when you find and use a good copy rather than one with potentially severe defects.

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[Stuart Richardson]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:56 PM, Aeio-u said:

Thank you. I rejected this one. 

I think you dodged a bullet. Looking at the front of the lens, I agree with cbass, it looks like someone not too careful opened the lens up (probably to try to clean out that fungus and haze. You can see the bright marks on the screws and what looks like scratched metal or maybe a repaint job. Chances are the lens would still take good pictures, but as others have said, you are better off paying a bit more for a cleaner copy. Hope you find one.