Tamron will issue L-mount lenses....

[MJB]

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13 hours ago, rtai said:

Now days in the digital era the body is the most important component and the look of the photos will be dictated by technology more so than the optics. We are not in the film era anymore where we can spend $3000 on the Summilux and then $800 on that used M2 or new Bessa. Keep using the Summilux for life and buy that MP a la Carte if you have the money or don’t, it doesn’t matter it is just a black box with a shutter. Today you buy a M11 for $8000 or used M10P whatever and many of us don’t have enough money for that Summilux. Or buy one Summicron Asph and fill the rest of the lens kit with TTartisan or Voigtlander. No one will stop you from buying all Leica if you have the budget. There’s always used M240 I guess. I know plenty of people shooting Leica M and R lenses with Sony bodies with excellent results. As a long time film user I switched because of the Monochrom.

Yeah, I did think about how digital cameras contribute so much more to the image than film cameras, which basically only need to be light-tight and have an accurate shutter. But I did not think about how, in a way, it is an opposite paradigm from the film days, where you pour more money into bodies than lenses. 
 

One big difference is that, in the film days you could save up for that Summilux and use it for life. Now, Leica’s asking you to buy an $8K camera every 2-3 years. I mean, you don’t HAVE to upgrade every generation, but digital camera bodies are inherently more disposable than lenses, especially well-crafted manual-focus lenses. 
 

Anyway, I would argue that post-processing has an even greater impact on image quality and character than even sensor, not to mention the fact that sensors are not even unique to camera bodies, coming from only a few suppliers (Sony, etc.). Sure there are different image processing algorithms and Leica fairy dust on board, but I don’t believe for a second that anyone could reliably determine if an image was made by a particular camera. 

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[MJB]

Another paradigm shift from the film days of course is that lens quality has improved so dramatically across the board.  I mean, there have long been good Japanese lenses but it used to be that the budget brands were really hit or miss, with probably more misses than hits.  Nowadays, third-party lenses generally perform very well, and even these very new Chinese lens companies are producing lenses that are very serviceable.  I think for some of us who started photography in the 20th Century have certain preconceptions and prejudices that can be hard to let go of.  In fact, I think Leica deliberately trades in those preconceptions and prejudices - exclusiveness is central to their brand identity.

[Ko.Fe.]

On 2/8/2023 at 2:22 AM, MJB said:

Another paradigm shift from the film days

Here is an update from your Tamron on film days  

Tamron has been honored with EISA Awards for 17 consecutive years. Plus,  recently Tamron wins three prestigious awards. “EISA STANDARD ZOOM LENS 2022-2023”.

Don't know you background, but Tamron 28-78 2.8 EF lens was popular among school picture days photogs in upper NA  

Real working photogs.

Tamron strength is quality optics, but smaller and lighter build. Doesn't ring the bell? How many light and compact Leica L mount lenses we know....

Some Sony cameras are more expensive than SL2-S for example. Tamron makes E mount lenses.

Back to film days, Winogrand switched to Leica, but did not have Leitz 28mm lens till his late years, 

 “The Americans” was taken by Leica camera with Nikkor lens on it. 

I haven't seen Frank's prints, but I have seen Winogrand's. I inspected them closely and it doesn't matter if it was Canon LTM or Elmarit-M 28mm lenses. I could see the difference in rendering, but I have to put glasses on and get very close to see it. This is not how real photogs prints are meant to be seen.

 

As for comment of yours on Chinese lenses. China has their own space program now and their own modern vehicles. Guess what, they are making not only old Leitz lenses copies matching optically, but some of their lenses are even better than some current Leica M lenses.  

 

Cheers. 

[rsolomon]

On 2/5/2023 at 7:23 AM, MJB said:

This is the kind of thing that has me questioning my Leica ownership.  Like, I remember when I had a film Nikon SLR and a Tamron zoom lens, and that thing was a POS compared to the native lenses.  Sure, times have changed and maybe Tamron is making decent glass now, but it seems crazy to me that we spend all this money on Leica bodies and then are willing to go to the lowest bidder for lenses.  To be fair, in many cases, the lowest bidder is doing just fine in terms of quality (Sigma, for example).  But it just makes me feel like maybe I don't need to be shooting a Leica after all, I don't know.  I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, I think I'm just genuinely disillusioned with the brand (maybe the killing of the APS-C line finally caught up with me, lol).

I see this completely opposite…. Leica is about lenses and captures the light - the essence and foundation. The camera holds the film or sensor for later processing. In my opinion leica and photography is about lens quality and ergonomics….. critically important to capture the moment, the perspective, the light.  
With that, leica M is not even a good camera in certain situations and perhaps the best in other situations…

[pop]

On 2/5/2023 at 1:23 PM, MJB said:

This is the kind of thing that has me questioning my Leica ownership.

You should question something completely different. What appears to be a quote at the very beginning of this thread is computer-generated bullshit. It is a mere fabrication. A lie.

Oh well, should I post a similar statement about the moon being made of cheese, we would have a debate about the taste and desirability of moon cheese in no time. Which is the beverage which goes most favorably with the renowned bouquet of the stellar cheese?

[MrSMW]

On 5/13/2023 at 6:47 PM, pop said:

Which is the beverage which goes most favorably with the renowned bouquet of the stellar cheese?

That’s easy, it’s:

 https://www.agbarr.co.uk/our-brands/barr-soft-drinks/irn-bru/

Made in Scotland. From girders.